Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by dougeff » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:14 pm

Are games released in Australia PAL-A?

(I'm thinking specifically of Ufouria).
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by lidnariq » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:19 pm

AVRciczz says region ";3197 - UK/Italy/Australia "

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by Sumez » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:38 pm

Bregalad wrote: Well I've yet to have seen any PAL-A game in real-life, period. Games seems to remain mostly domestic.
PAL A is UK, it's pretty common. :) I couldn't tell you how many I have though... since I don't have to worry about that, I don't pay attention ;) Nowadays I'm always targeting NTSC releases (either US or Jap) though, as long as it's feasible without too steep custom fees.

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by FrankenGraphics » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:05 pm

SCN games fetch ridiculous prices here, which means NOE games are flooding this region to compensate. Games from uk and italy aren't as common here as the NOE ones have become, due to the CIC, but they can sometimes be cheaper to get.
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by DRW » Sun Dec 10, 2017 4:03 am

A question for everybody who uses the original Famicom-to-NES converter by Nintendo by putting it into a shell where the top was sawed off:

How exactly do you use this?

This is how it's put into a cartridge:
Converter.jpg
So, how do you put a Famicom game on top?
This only works if you turn around the converter by 180 degrees because of the attachments on the side or if the Famicom game doesn't have a shell by itself, as in the image.
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by infiniteneslives » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:08 pm

Most converters require the famicom front label to be facing down in the NES cartridge tray as you've mentioned. To keep the famicom label up you need a converter which 'flips' all the connections like I did with my design.

I didn't realize the tabs on the side of the gyromite connector would need sawed off as well as the famicom shell would prevent seating of the cart as you've also pointed out..

I imagine people who use it have to hack those tabs off, but then consequently can't easily attach it to an original case that's sawed in half. So they just use the bare adapter without case? Or they take the famicom board out of the case which is rather difficult to do without breaking the case tabs..?
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by rainwarrior » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:23 pm

Instead of sawing off the tabs you can just take the black double-sided pass-through and turn it upside down. Works exactly the same the other way around and a cartridge will fit on it fine.

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by infiniteneslives » Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:47 pm

Oh right, but then it won't easily mount in an original case sawed in half.

I think the answer to your question DRW is people do what rainwarrior mentioned and then don't use a case at all.
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by Memblers » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:14 pm

Has anyone tried one of these yet?
http://www.muramasaentertainment.com/in ... erter.html
http://www.muramasaentertainment.com/me ... rter_2.png
http://www.muramasaentertainment.com/me ... rter_3.png
here is another model:
http://www.muramasaentertainment.com/in ... erter.html
infiniteneslives wrote: Yes but the ENIO also provides support for external audio. No I'm not going to be making my own ENIO, I have no interest in doing so. You don't need to adjust the volume, but some people enjoy the feature. It has been reported that some people have buzzing issues with their console when the audio resistor is in place. So having the ability to switch it on/off or adjust the volume to near off may necessitate the feature.
I hope that allowing volume adjustment for expansion audio doesn't become the standard. As a composer, that's potentially bad because it means that when using the NES and exp audio together, it's going to sound different on different systems. The various Famicom revisions output at varying levels, so I'm guessing that's why people want to adjust it. I don't know if the NES will be 100% consistent or not. But I think it's worth noting that taking on this feature means the NES would inherit one of the problems of Famicom expansion audio..

Also, was said already, but I can confirm that the audio output of the Famicom Everdrive is nearly inaudible and basically useless on the Famicom I have, so hopefully nobody is using that as gauge of anything.

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by DRW » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:00 am

infiniteneslives wrote:Most converters require the famicom front label to be facing down in the NES cartridge tray as you've mentioned. To keep the famicom label up you need a converter which 'flips' all the connections like I did with my design.
To be honest, I couldn't care less that the cartridge needs to face down. That's the smallest problem.
infiniteneslives wrote:I didn't realize the tabs on the side of the gyromite connector would need sawed off as well as the famicom shell would prevent seating of the cart as you've also pointed out..
After further inspection, I came to the conclusion that one should maybe saw the cartridge shell at the position where the converter and the lower board meet and then use the converter upside down. This way, the plastic piece is not attached to the shell with screws, but it might still work.
How is anybody supposed to put this into his NES? The NES won't start if the cartridge simply hangs out.
This one looks totally useless for an unmodified front loader.
Memblers wrote:here is another model:
http://www.muramasaentertainment.com/in ... erter.html
The black plastic piece is built as high as the board, i.e. the sides of the plastic piece don't have free space. Which means you cannot put a Famicom cartridge on top, you have to remove it from its shelf and use the Famicom board directly.
An issue that could have easily been fixed had they removed the upper edges of the board.

What were they thinking with this kind of design?
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by tepples » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:38 am

DRW wrote:How is anybody supposed to put this into his NES? The NES won't start if the cartridge simply hangs out.
This one looks totally useless for an unmodified front loader.
It will if the board is thicker, as it is for a Game Genie.

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by DRW » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:56 am

And this will not wear out anything?
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by Pokun » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:51 pm

As I said earlier, the seller said that the adapter pretty much requires a blinking light win and it also has problems if RF is used.
Memblers wrote:
infiniteneslives wrote: Yes but the ENIO also provides support for external audio. No I'm not going to be making my own ENIO, I have no interest in doing so. You don't need to adjust the volume, but some people enjoy the feature. It has been reported that some people have buzzing issues with their console when the audio resistor is in place. So having the ability to switch it on/off or adjust the volume to near off may necessitate the feature.
I hope that allowing volume adjustment for expansion audio doesn't become the standard. As a composer, that's potentially bad because it means that when using the NES and exp audio together, it's going to sound different on different systems. The various Famicom revisions output at varying levels, so I'm guessing that's why people want to adjust it. I don't know if the NES will be 100% consistent or not. But I think it's worth noting that taking on this feature means the NES would inherit one of the problems of Famicom expansion audio..

Also, was said already, but I can confirm that the audio output of the Famicom Everdrive is nearly inaudible and basically useless on the Famicom I have, so hopefully nobody is using that as gauge of anything.
The differences isn't that big between Famicoms. I think it's mainly the AV Famicom that has low volume, and since it were released after the majority of the expansion audio games was made, games where probably made with the older Famicoms in mind. If I understand it correctly the potentiometer is not for simulating different Famicom systems, but for simulating different audio expansion cartridges since they may differ, and since the mixing has to be done in the console instead of in the cartridge in the NES' case.

Yeah the Everdrive is pretty much useless for anything that uses expansion audio. The games that are "supported" are effectively unplayable on the Everdrive unless you play without sound.

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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by infiniteneslives » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Memblers wrote:I hope that allowing volume adjustment for expansion audio doesn't become the standard.
All my audio expansion dongles will have a fixed 47k ohm resistor as that's about as 'standard' as we'll ever get, the adjustable pot is the optional feature enabled with a toggle switch.
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Re: Ways to play Famicom games on an NES

Post by rainwarrior » Mon Dec 11, 2017 6:42 pm

Pokun wrote:AIf I understand it correctly the potentiometer is not for simulating different Famicom systems, but for simulating different audio expansion cartridges since they may differ, and since the mixing has to be done in the console instead of in the cartridge in the NES' case.

Yeah the Everdrive is pretty much useless for anything that uses expansion audio. The games that are "supported" are effectively unplayable on the Everdrive unless you play without sound.
The 47k resistor is specifically for the PowerPak's simulated expansion sound, and subsequently the Everdrive was made to the same standard.

The emulation of expansion sound on either of those flashcarts should be designed with the 47k resistor mix in mind, so it theoretically doesn't need to be adjusted for different expansions... but in practice the volume levels of these emulations doesn't really match the originals all that well anyway, and I think a pot helps compensate for this.

If you're planning to put Famicom carts in your NES, the 47k resistor is just not the right mix for it no matter what you do. They're all mixing on their own terms, and you're not going to get a good balance from anything unless you can make it adjustable instead.

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