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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:43 pm 
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(but not that homebrew)

An article by Kathy Benjamin titled "6 Terrible Stereotypes (That Came From Positive Things)" went up today on Cracked. Item #6 is about witch stereotypes, and it mostly retreads an article by Jane Peyton in Stylist titled "Women and beer: a pocket history".

In medieval Europe, drinking water was of poor quality. So while the men were out doing other things, the women would brew beer to drink. This needs a big black kettle, a cat to scare away vermin, a wooden pole with twigs at the end to denote "beer served here" in an era of illiteracy, and occasionally a tall hat to be seen in the crowd when selling the product. The surname Brewster originally meant "woman who makes beer".

But in the 14th century, men wanted in on the alcohol market. So they got all sexist, reinterpreting the signs of a brewer as signs of witchcraft.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:36 pm 
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A lot of people sure see old console homebrew software as witchcraftery, but still accept it to be able to avoid the staleness of the official "brew" from 30 years ago. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Quote:
But in the 14th century, men wanted in on the alcohol market. So they got all sexist, reinterpreting the signs of a brewer as signs of witchcraft.


And not just brewing beer, but the practice of medicine had the same story - once the women who started making a buck on it, men sought to take over the trade and witchcraft accusations ensued.

There's one odd thing about riding the broomstick though - many folk stories depict the riding equipment to be a fire poker rather than a broom, and the exact procedure for flying out the chimney is a little more burlesque than just straddling it. I suppose this is old folk humor. I don't know if the broomstick version of flying is as old as these accusations of witchcraft or if it's maybe a victorian revision of the stories that takes a common description and layers it on top of another.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:43 pm 
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This is an interesting story. Thanks for sharing.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:15 am 
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tepples wrote:
The surname Brewster originally meant "woman who makes beer".

But in the 14th century, men wanted in on the alcohol market. So they got all sexist, reinterpreting the signs of a brewer as signs of witchcraft.


Coincidentally, "witch" in Spanish is the similar-sounding "bruja". The actual etymology of it is pretty unclear, though, and it doesn't resemble the equivalent word in any other Romance languages that I'm familiar with.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:17 pm 
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tepples wrote:
Kathy Benjamin explains how homebrew is for witches

One question: Would you have written this post if making beer wasn't called brewing and you therefore couldn't have used the word "homebrew"?

Or to ask it in a different way:

Did you actually create this thread because you're interested in that beer-related topic and genuinely wanted to share that knowledge?

Or did you simply see the possibility to create a clickbait title by using the double meaning of the word "homebrew" on this forum that's about self-made console games?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:52 pm 
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This is the "general stuff" forum. Talking about beer-making and witches isn't off topic here.

Whether or not the topic tricked you into clicking on this thread is another matter, though.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:12 pm 
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DRW wrote:
tepples wrote:
Kathy Benjamin explains how homebrew is for witches

One question: Would you have written this post if making beer wasn't called brewing and you therefore couldn't have used the word "homebrew"?

Hobbyist unlicensed console game development might have ended up named after whatever making beer was called. And even if it weren't:

DRW wrote:
Or did you simply see the possibility to create a clickbait title by using the double meaning of the word "homebrew" on this forum that's about self-made console games?

Console makers demonize homebrew the way the men described in the article demonized homebrew. If the pun weren't there, I would probably have come up with some other pun related to some other Cracked article as a different analogy for gatekeeping of creativity.

Besides, if you've been following me since fourth quarter 2008 when I started taking NESdev seriously, you'd know I have a history of liking puns. Concentration Room and Thwaite are both named based on puns.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:32 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
This is the "general stuff" forum. Talking about beer-making and witches isn't off topic here.

Yeah, and as a human being, you are able to detect context and don't just work on a pure by-letter basis, right?

Yes, technically and "legally", everything can be posted here.

But the question is: Would he have posted this stuff it it wasn't for the stupid pun with the word "homebrew"? I.e. would he have posted it on, let's say, a car forum?
Was tepples really interested in discussing historical roots of beer making?

I say: No, he wasn't. The topic of this thread didn't really interest him, he exclusively created it for the stupid word-based joke.

And in the light of this motivation, it can be considered spam.

tepples wrote:
Hobbyist unlicensed console game development might have ended up named after whatever making beer was called.

This statement might be true or false. In any way, it has nothing to do with my complaint.

tepples wrote:
Console makers demonize homebrew the way the men described in the article demonized homebrew.

And yet, your thread is not at all about those console makers, so please don't try to tell me that you always intended to point out this parallel.

tepples wrote:
If the pun weren't there, I would probably have come up with some other pun related to some other Cracked article.

So, you admit that you were not really interested in beer brewing and merely created this thread for a stupid clickbaity pun?

As I said: Spam.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:44 pm 
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If it's really going to come down to this kind of stupid argument, then I'm just going to say:

I'm glad tepples posted it, I found it interesting, and I really don't care that you feel you were baited.

I would even go so far as to say that I am actively annoyed that you dug up a month-old thread just to say that you're upset by it.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:47 pm 
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I'm actually interested in both beer brewing and witches (and medieval history in particular) and am very happy that tepples posted this. It was interesting to read about.

Quite frankly, even if tepples' only intended value was some joke about a "homebrew" double entendre, that's still enough to justify a general stuff forum post.

If you got tricked into reading it and are mad about this for some reason, I think you've at least made your point by now. What exactly do you want?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:59 pm 
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I have a feeling that between this and my recent hypocritical misbehavior with respect to Star Evil, DRW wants me out of here.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:16 pm 
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And I bet lots of people want DRW out too, nobody is universally loved anywhere. You're the top poster in this forum, the chances of people not liking something you say are higher than anyone else's.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:58 am 
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rainwarrior wrote:
I'm actually interested in both beer brewing and witches (and medieval history in particular) and am very happy that tepples posted this. It was interesting to read about.

So, this discussion forum can now be used as a general trivia site where you post random stuff even if you don't intend to ever come back to the topic? Good to know.

Then I guess you don't have anything against me creating a dozen threads about Beanie Babies, rose growing or the latest shampoos.

rainwarrior wrote:
Quite frankly, even if tepples' only intended value was some joke about a "homebrew" double entendre, that's still enough to justify a general stuff forum post.

O.k., expect me to create threads about:

"What do you think about the Mario movie?" (The movie "Grease Live" with Mario Lopez.)

"Do you think a Zelda movie would be a good idea?" (A spinoff movie about Aunt Zelda from "Sabrina the Teenage Witch", that is.)

"New way of emulation." (A YouTube video about some guy emulating the behavior of a dog.)

And don't you dare to bitch about it! You will treat these threads with absolute seriousness.

rainwarrior wrote:
If you got tricked into reading it and are mad about this for some reason, I think you've at least made your point by now.

Yes, I did, but if the person that I complained about feels the need to invent nonsense to retroactively justify it ("It's like the witch hunt of console developers"), then I'll call him out again.

Don't pretend that you wouldn't be pissed if this stupid thread came from me instead of your beloved tepples. I even get called out on this forum when I confuse meta sprites and meta tiles, yet this crap here is applauded by everybody.

tepples wrote:
I have a feeling that between this and my recent hypocritical misbehavior with respect to Star Evil, DRW wants me out of here.

Erm, yes. Why should I want you out of here? You know very well that I call out bullshit no matter where it comes from, so don't be so egocentric to think that I have any kind of personal vendetta against you.

You wrote a clickbait thread that got me interested in what kind of conservative nut might have something against videogames again, but not videogames in general, but specifically homebrew. And then all you did was posting some article about beer brewery, a topic that, I bet, you have zero interest in. Just for the sake of a stupid pun that isn't really that funny to begin with.

And I called you out on this behavior. Because this method is worthy of some corporate advertisement assholes or 13 year old YouTube morons.
Your thread is the NESDev equivalent of some YouTube video with a misleading thumbnail. This kind of crap is universally hated. Why should you be an exception to this?

Next time, I'll simply answer every thread that you create with the word "First". Another generally-hated spam behavior. Let's see how long this will be tolerated.

And who the fuck is Star Evil?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:44 am 
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DRW wrote:
Then I guess you don't have anything against me creating a dozen threads about Beanie Babies, rose growing or the latest shampoos.

The problem is the frequency. Replace "a dozen" with "occasional" and there shouldn't be quite as much of a problem.

About ten years ago, we indeed had a problem with someone who would flood General Stuff with talk about his own psychological problems.


Later topics discussing the scope of General Stuff alluded to this case:


DRW wrote:
if the person that I complained about feels the need to invent nonsense to retroactively justify it ("It's like the witch hunt of console developers"), then I'll call him out again.

I had thought about mentioning that in my first post to the topic, but I just barely decided that it wasn't yet the ripest point in the discussion to mention it. I can understand you you might perceive that a mistake was made by not mentioning that connection up front. Should it be made a rule of General Stuff that any thematic connection between an off-topic post and the overall NESdev topic ought to be disclosed in the first post of a topic?

DRW wrote:
And then all you did was posting some article about beer brewery, a topic that, I bet, you have zero interest in.

You are correct that I have no personal interest in brewing beer or even drinking beer. I guess a second thing that led me to post this topic was frustration with my boss at my day job (Phil's Hobby Shop), who is so busy with the craft brewery that he just established and with which I am not involved (Hop River Brewing Company) that he has very little time left to attend to managing my programming work.

DRW wrote:
And who the fuck is Star Evil?

An entry by pubby to the most recent NESdev Compo. When I suggested a more honest description of his entry's premise for use in the multicart, other users supported pubby and his right to insist on a description of his entry that intentionally misleads players in service of a twist that occurs in the first minute of play. Once I realized the parallels between the Star Evil controversy and this very topic, I realized my own hypocrisy and questioned if I am still the best person to continue to maintain the Action 53 project.


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