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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:02 pm 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
You can one-shot guardians with the anti-guardian (not the real name) arrows you can craft at the tech lab.

Seriously? I gotta get me some of those.

Sumez wrote:
What are you even doing fighting Guardians without the Master Sword? I can't think of any in the game that can't be avoided completely. And with the exception of an incredibly well timed shield parry, they are practically impossible to kill without the Master Sword, and super easy with it (yeah you can use ancient arrows, but they are rare). As long as you are only fighting one at a time, their lasers are easy to dodge. As for fighting multiple at a time... that's just something you should never do.

Lynels is another thing you shouldn't try fighting until pretty late in the game, but apart from that most things aren't really too dangerous, and fully healing food items are super easy to stock up on.

I haven't been fighting any of them, because it's physically impossible to win. That's the problem!

Sumez wrote:
I said I'm using the default blue shirt and upgrading that at the great faeries. It had by far the highest defense rating of anything in the game, and kept me well protected throughout the game.

But it's only one piece out of three, and upgrading it requires chipping dragon horns, starting with Farosh, so you need the rubber set... nope, still have no idea how you did that.

Sumez wrote:
I agree, it really does sound like we are playing two different games. :)

I suppose that's a good thing. Not many games can be played in such radically different ways. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Rahsennor wrote:
Are we even playing the same game? Regular enemies can knock six hearts off in one hit and take enough damage to break weapons as fast as you find them. Guardians can soak up an entire inventory of normal weaponry without dying and one-shot you regardless of what you're wearing. In any other game I'd say I'm grossly underlevelled, but the closest equivalent is buying better gear and you just said you didn't do that...

Armor is very important in BoTW. Your armor rating is the number of quarter-hearts that damage is reduced by. Just raising your armor by 4 means taking one less heart of damage from every hit.

That said, elemental damage complicates things a little, and you can't remove damage entirely, because each enemy will always deal at least some amount of damage depending on their type.

When it comes to Guardian lasers, they aren't just an automatic one-hit kill. With good armor, you can reduce their damage all the way down to 3.5 hearts per shot.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Sumez wrote:
What are you even doing fighting Guardians without the Master Sword? I can't think of any in the game that can't be avoided completely. And with the exception of an incredibly well timed shield parry, they are practically impossible to kill without the Master Sword, and super easy with it (yeah you can use ancient arrows, but they are rare)

You can use any of the guardian weapon against them, not just ancient arrows. These frequently drop from the sentries in shrines (esp. combat trials), plus there's a set of similar weapons you can buy at the Akkala lab. Otherwise, a regular arrow to the eye will help you get away from one.

Also, you don't really even need to buy the cold/heat armour sets. You can just make potions to substitute for both with very easy to find ingredients. Lizards are a bit easier to catch with the Shiekah armour set, though... but likewise you can make potions for stealth too.

If you do want an easy way to get rupees, the bowling lodge challenge a little bit east of the tower in the icy region will rack up rupees pretty fast if you know where to drop the ball, and is easy to grind while not paying too much attention to (e.g. watching a movie).


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:01 am 
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rainwarrior wrote:
You can use any of the guardian weapon against them, not just ancient arrows. These frequently drop from the sentries in shrines (esp. combat trials), plus there's a set of similar weapons you can buy at the Akkala lab. Otherwise, a regular arrow to the eye will help you get away from one.

Even then, why would you? Aside from challenging yourself of course. The guardians are relatively rare, and always placed in a way to guard off some areas that are "intended" (ie. guided into) late-game areas, such as Hyrule Castle, obviously. Aside from that, most places they show up, they are either very easy to avoid, or actually set up in a way that the game expects you to "stealth" your way around them rather than fight them - especially true for the flying ones.

The question wasn't so much how you'd fight them, but why you'd bother with it. Trying to take on the toughest enemy in the game before you get the best equipment to fight them isn't really an indicator of the difficulty of the game. :)

rainwarrior wrote:
Also, you don't really even need to buy the cold/heat armour sets. You can just make potions to substitute for both with very easy to find ingredients. Lizards are a bit easier to catch with the Shiekah armour set, though... but likewise you can make potions for stealth too.

The easiest thing to do (except from Death Mountain) is just equipping a cold/warm weapon and keeping it on your back. It will keep you from fighting stuff (unless you have another backup and don't mind breaking the one you're using to control your body temperature - or in some cases just take in the cold while you're using another weapon), but it carried me very far into the game. I never bought the hot/cold armors until I had enough money for them anyway. Never had to grind for any rupees.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:31 am 
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Sumez wrote:
The question wasn't so much how you'd fight them, but why you'd bother with it. Trying to take on the toughest enemy in the game before you get the best equipment to fight them isn't really an indicator of the difficulty of the game. :)

Well, if you want an answer to that: (I'd mark this as a spoiler, but we seem to be past that point already)

They appear sparsely throughout the game in places you will encounter long before end-game, starting with one you need to sneak past in the introduction area, so it kind of sets them up as a point of interest challenge from the beginning. They're not just for the end, they're an important element across the whole game.

At some point a traveller told me I could hit them in the eye, and that's when I realized I could stun them this way.

I tried a few times to destroy one but ended up grinding all my weapons away in the process, and failed.

Eventually on the way to the Akkala tech lab, there was a partially disabled one blocking my way to the lab. (I could sneak past, but I needed to light the torches, and it was making this difficult.) This one, because it had no legs and lower HP I actually managed to destroy. That was kind of a turning point for realizing that I could destroy them.

Finally at the lab, with all those glowing blue weapons on sale, I started to wonder about my own collection of guardian weapons I'd picked up in the shrines. That's when I decided to try these on the guardians and realized I could take them on with these. This again was a realization and point of discovery that I really enjoyed.

I didn't get the master sword until MUCH later, and I thought the continual encounters with guardians, with slowly increasing varieties of success was a lot of fun.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:25 am 
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I've got two sacred beasts Zora and Goron and I spent all my upgrades on Heart Containers except one on the Ganbari meter. There are plenty of strong enemies in the game and I seldom had much trouble climbing so I find hearts far more important. I met my first Guardian with legs in the Zora region and I couldn't beat it, then when I went to Death Mountain I was finally strong enough to beat a Guardian. They are still hard since I can only barely survive one hit with good armor but you can stun them, freeze them in time, cut their legs and stuff so they aren't that hard. Just as long as you have some somewhat strong weapons (I haven't seen any Master Swords yet) and are good with the bow, I don't find them too difficult anymore. I learned to dodge their beams on the plateau early in the game, although there's not much room for mistakes. Some fairies and Mifaa's skill really helps.

Why fight the Guardians and Lynels when you can sneak around them? Because it's more fun to fight them IMHO. Early in the game you have no choice but to sneak around them which was very exciting on its own, but if I have a chance of winning I'll take the fight. This is really a great game far exceeding my expectations!

I don't get what blue armor you got early? I bought all armor I could find in shops and the best I have so far in terms of defense is the knight armor in Hateno Village. Chugging potions works but I find it far less stressful to just use the fire proof armor in Death Mountain that you even get for free (well part of it) for doing a quest.

There are tons of things to buy in shops so I think this is finally the first Zelda game since A link to the Past or possibly Links Awakening that actually got the economy right again. I always run out of arrows (unlike in other Zelda games where you can just cut some grass when you run out) and recently I gotten rich so I buy up most of the food stock in the shops (especially things that can only be found in the shops). I got plenty of rupees from just selling things I have too much of and it was enough to buy everything in the game so far and even a house, but I think I've probably been grinding more than most people do. Not intentionally though, I just find it fun to go around and explore and fight everything I meet, which got me plenty of items.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:02 am 
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Pokun wrote:
Why fight the Guardians and Lynels when you can sneak around them? Because it's more fun to fight them IMHO. Early in the game you have no choice but to sneak around them which was very exciting on its own, but if I have a chance of winning I'll take the fight. This is really a great game far exceeding my expectations!

I agree completely, but the game makes it very obvious that you should sneak around them early on, and trying to take them on is an obviously optional challenge, so my point is that it makes no sense to say the game is absurdly difficult (and wants you to spend rupees as an effect of that??) because of how strong they are.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:21 am 
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Sumez wrote:
[Breath of the Wild] makes it very obvious that you should sneak around [late game bosses] early on

Which completely contradicts what A Link to the Past taught players. I tried to stealth the first castle but was stopped when the only way to obtain a key to progress was by killing a guard in the basement.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:42 am 
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Hiding keys on enemies and in pots was kinda bad design in that game. There's a infamous part of Swamp Palace where if you flood the dungeon before collecting a key, you're completely screwed and don't know it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:45 pm 
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Heh I didn't know about that glitch. The Ball 'n Chain jailer however is more like a mandatory miniboss. The sneaking-into-the-castle-scene was introduced in A link to the Past but it's not really necessary to sneak at all in that game since the enemy soldiers are weak and dumb.

Sumez wrote:
Pokun wrote:
Why fight the Guardians and Lynels when you can sneak around them? Because it's more fun to fight them IMHO. Early in the game you have no choice but to sneak around them which was very exciting on its own, but if I have a chance of winning I'll take the fight. This is really a great game far exceeding my expectations!

I agree completely, but the game makes it very obvious that you should sneak around them early on, and trying to take them on is an obviously optional challenge, so my point is that it makes no sense to say the game is absurdly difficult (and wants you to spend rupees as an effect of that??) because of how strong they are.
You are right, I focused on hearts which is why I reached the point where I can stop sneaking around them earlier than otherwise. But I still had to sneak past them early on. Even if I would be able to dodge perfectly I would still probably run out of weapons (I tried fighting a Lynel early but quit when I realized that I was running out of weapons and died too many times).
I think they finally nailed the difficulty in battles for the first time in a 3D Zelda. It reminds me of Zelda 1 on the second quest where you have to go up into the Death Mountain very early in the game, and Lynels are way out of your league so you just have to try to avoid them. Or Death Mountain in Zelda 2 which are filled with strong enemies (like red Daira) that you might rather not want to fight at that point in the game if you can help it.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:01 am 
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Lynels are super fun to fight, but you don't get a lot of chances to learn their movement patterns early on due to them practically one-shotting you. I think it's also sad the game doesn't have more variations of enemies like that. In fact there's a general lack of variation in enemy designs throughout the entire game, it's one of its few jarring flaws.

tepples wrote:
Which completely contradicts what A Link to the Past taught players. I tried to stealth the first castle but was stopped when the only way to obtain a key to progress was by killing a guard in the basement.

BOTW and LTTP are so inherently different that any kind of comparisons are completely nonsensical. :P I think BOTW is completely defined by its sandbox structure - The old Zelda games were pretty much segregated into room puzzles or combat and had one way to tackle those (which I also loved), while BOTW usually allows you to solve challenges in a ton of different valid ways, even within the shrines. Usually there will be a guided way, but the game completely encourages creativity and going off the beaten path, something no Zelda games did before, with exception of the first one being kind of open to taking dungeons in "any" order.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:08 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
You can one-shot guardians with the anti-guardian (not the real name) arrows you can craft at the tech lab.

To anyone else reading this: save yourself the trouble and have a baloney sandwich.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:56 am 
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Not sure what you mean. I've done it at least twice. I assume it wouldn't work with any of the lo-damage bows, but just get there, snipe it in the eye, boom.

Anyway regardless type of arrows; always snipe them in the eye. Time it evenly and they'll never be able to hit you.

If it's too stressful, remember that drawing the bow while dropping through air slows down time. Climb a structure or hill, paraglide, draw. Build a fire, ride the jet with the paraglide, draw. Or jump from a horse and draw, though i've never used this.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:29 am 
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Yes that's how I fight Guardians. I keep shooting normal arrows or throwing broken weapons in their eyes to buy time. Sometimes it fails and I'm forced to dodge the beam, sometimes that fails too and I'm forced to sacrifice a shield (unless I manage to reflect the beam). Having lots of weapons, shields, fairies and some special skills is usually enough to beat a few Guardians. I aim for their legs to immobilize them and break their shield field thingy. Then I try to tip them over and try to stab them from bellow. If I'm out of fairies I run though, too risky.

Ancient weaponry are great if you have them, but I have only one of those anti-guardian arrows so I'm not using it.

Sumez wrote:
Lynels are super fun to fight, but you don't get a lot of chances to learn their movement patterns early on due to them practically one-shotting you. I think it's also sad the game doesn't have more variations of enemies like that. In fact there's a general lack of variation in enemy designs throughout the entire game, it's one of its few jarring flaws.
Yeah like any 3D Zelda after Wind Waker it's a lot of Bokoblins and Moblins. But at least they are strong, in all other 3D Zeldas the fight usually goes like this: The enemy is slow and stupid so you hit him three times before he can do anything, he flies to the ground so you have to wait for him to get up then he falls after one or two additional hits. You can't even try out all the cool weapons and moves you got because they die too fast. Other enemies are either Octoroks that you have to shoot from afar or other weak enemies like Chuchu that falls in one or two hits and never really gives you a fight. The only strong enemies are the Knucks (Darknut, Iron Knuckle etc) but they are very rare usually only found in late-game dungeons. In BOW even Bokoblins are dangerous because they have more powerful attacks and they can usually take far more than three hits with an average sword before they fall.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:53 am 
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That's exactly what I did, and it didn't work. I'm starting to think my copy of the game has nerfed bows or something. :evil:

I did finally manage to kill one though. I used a speed boost and a Guardian Sword to lop its legs off before it managed to hit me. The sword broke, but by then I could just sit on top of it and plink away.


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