Best Version of Windows?

You can talk about almost anything that you want to on this board.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Banshaku
Posts: 2336
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Contact:

Re: Best Version of Windows?

Post by Banshaku » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:07 pm

@Ziggy587

Thanks for the link! I will check how to set it up tonight.

User avatar
koitsu
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 9:28 pm
Location: A world gone mad

Re: Best Version of Windows?

Post by koitsu » Wed Aug 29, 2018 10:52 am

On topic. I was given this today: http://blog.zorinaq.com/i-contribute-to ... ther-oper/

Do not let the URL title mislead you. The content is not fairly short and easy to read. Three quotes that resonate with me (emphasis on one line mine):
Another reason for the quality gap is that that we've been having trouble keeping talented people. Google and other large Seattle-area companies keep poaching our best, most experienced developers, and we hire youths straight from college to replace them. You find SDEs and SDE IIs maintaining hugely import systems. These developers mean well and are usually adequately intelligent, but they don't understand why certain decisions were made, don't have a thorough understanding of the intricate details of how their systems work, and most importantly, don't want to change anything that already works.
...
The NT kernel is still much better than Linux in some ways --- you guys be trippin' with your overcommit-by-default MM nonsense[1] ...
...
No matter what you think of the Windows 8 UI, the system underneath is rock-solid, as was Windows 7, and I'm proud of having been a small part of this entire process.
The thing about the first quote that resonates with me is that this is a universal problem with technology (particularly software) right now, at least in the United States. The same comparison can be made towards programming languages (often toted by younger, less-experienced folks that don't understand or are unaware of the historic design choices made of something -- i.e. were not part of the "well we could consider Y, but X offers better results in terms of speed and size" conversation during creation of a thing). Like the quote says, the people mean well, but lack the understanding of the intricate details to really be able to make good decisions.

The overall post also resonates with me because it overall supports the theory I've held for some years now: that the Windows kernel itself is actually quite stable (considering how much backwards compatibility it must retain!), and it's all the rest of the "junk" (incl. parts of UI) that users, understandably and justifiably, associate with Windows that give it the bad reputation it has today.

There's similar in the *IX world: generic end-users try a Linux distro that uses (for example) GNOME and find all sorts of wonky quirky bugs with it, then say "Ubuntu sucks balls" or "Linux sucks balls" while in reality it's GNOME that's sucking. Replace GNOME with KDE, or fvwm95, or E, or whatever other UI/window manager you want, or any other "thing" that's common-use, and the same proves true.

Anyway, I thought I'd share that URL/post because I found it a bit enlightening and reassuring... says me, the guy who ran XP until 2015, and still runs Windows 7 Ultimate on present-day hardware thanks to stuff like this.

[1]: Reference for those unfamiliar with the horror that is overcommit. Comparatively, FreeBSD offers this same feature (vm.overcommit) but defaults to disabled.

User avatar
slembcke
Posts: 171
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:40 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Best Version of Windows?

Post by slembcke » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:11 pm

koitsu wrote:it overall supports the theory I've held for some years now: that the Windows kernel itself is actually quite stable
That I can't argue with. Like the driver architecture is pretty nice when it prevents the GPU driver from taking the system down. Since Win 7, I haven't had a BSOD that I wasn't pretty sure was hardware related. (Though I could say the same of OS X and Linux which I use more *shrug*) It even seems to handle DoS attacks in drivers pretty well. Like a bad ShaderToy can't hang the system indefinitely, eventually it resets the GPU driver even though it hasn't crashed. Sometimes OS X will get stuck indefinitely, and I don't think that's possible at all on Linux.

On the other hand, I have a really hard time forgiving Windows for all of it's other faults that plague it's daily usage. The only time you even remember the kernel exists is when something goes wrong, which is not very often on any OS in 2018.

(Off topic: I don't get what the big deal with overcommit is. It's a reasonable default for most uses, and it's easy to change.)

User avatar
rainwarrior
Posts: 7812
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Location: Canada
Contact:

Re: Best Version of Windows?

Post by rainwarrior » Wed Aug 29, 2018 3:59 pm

slembcke wrote:I don't get what the big deal with overcommit is. It's a reasonable default for most uses, and it's easy to change.
Its only advantage is that you can allocate more memory than you intend to use without it failing. (It also encourages this paradigm, which also tends to go along with an attitude of never checking malloc for failure.)

It's disadvantage is that it takes away your ability to check for a memory failure and handle it. Your app will just crash when you try to use that bad allocation.

I wouldn't say it's a reasonable default for "most uses", except for the fact that most uses don't actually allocate enough memory to cause the problem, or maybe otherwise don't mind just crashing if out of memory (for some purposes that's an acceptable way to handle it). This lets you prevent actual "out of memory" a little bit longer, by hiding new allocations in that "unused" space, but to be able to do this it has to make it impossible for apps to know if they're going to just crash when an actual OOM is caused by any process, not just themselves.

EricThreet
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:45 am

Re: Best Version of Windows?

Post by EricThreet » Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:50 am

gauauu wrote:
tokumaru wrote: This was after an update, and this is what I have the most this interesting male exta site found here about modern software... Everything is fine, but an update comes along and breaks stuff. It happened to me on Linux before, and now on Windows 10. Is a reliable OS too much to ask for?
Just this week, my windows 10 updated itself, and now I can't get any sound out of my laptop speakers (I have to plug in headphones or external speakers). Windows 10 is where linux was a few years ago, where stuff just randomly breaks ALL THE TIME.
You're correct! Win 10 is causing a lot of problems for me too. And I never installed Win 10, I was having (and happy with) Win 7, when suddenly, without my permission, it got upgraded(?) to WIn 10. Thinking seriously to downgrade to Win 7 as it is the best OS after XP (SP2) and NT.

Post Reply