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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:59 am 
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Formerly WheelInventor

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:55 am
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Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
I think the general design problem with windows lately is that they've half-forgotten that a computer is and should primarily be for making work and creative processes easier/more effective. Does a feature help the user get a better work/creative hobby experience? If not, don't. Save that for your next phone/tablet update, which is better suited for those ends. An OS UI can't really try to be both and at the same time excel at either.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:12 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
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Location: Fukuoka, Japan
I'm now using linux everyday at work as a desktop and I'm more than happy with it. The only reason I keep windows at home is for a few programs (getting less and less every years) and some games. For working, not necessary anymore. Maybe one old editor I made in .net, that's it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:06 am 
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Formerly Espozo
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Location: Richmond, Virginia
A big problem (well, one of many) with 2000 is that there was no 64 but version, was there? It shouldn't take advantage of multiple cores either, so even with Windows XP's extra bloat, it seems like it should be faster overall. I'm much more CPU than hard drive bound, but even my CPU is overkill for either OS.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:07 am 
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I used to use Windows XP on my old computer, but since I got a new computer, I use Linux instead, and it is just a much better design than Microsoft Windows.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:11 am 
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Formerly Espozo
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I should really just bite the bullet and switch to Linux, but there's some software and random stuff like batch files I've made that I know won't be compatible with Linux, but should still work on XP (Rosetta Stone, lol. :lol: )

I know Windows instal sizes are only going to get bigger from here on out though...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:20 am 
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Location: Central Illinois, USA
Drew Sebastino wrote:
I should really just bite the bullet and switch to Linux, but there's some software and random stuff like batch files I've made that I know won't be compatible with Linux, but should still work on XP (Rosetta Stone, lol. :lol: )

I know Windows instal sizes are only going to get bigger from here on out though...


I bit the bullet and made the switch when Windows 8 came out. Haven't regretted it yet, with Linux Mint things have finally gotten smooth enough that most things work well and it's not too fiddly. I still keep a windows 7 VM via virtualbox for a few things that need windows, but otherwise, WINE does the trick.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:34 am 
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Drew Sebastino wrote:
I should really just bite the bullet and switch to Linux, but there's some software and random stuff like batch files I've made that I know won't be compatible with Linux

If you use batch files, you'll love Bash.

Drew Sebastino wrote:
but should still work on XP (Rosetta Stone, lol. :lol: )

If something still works on Windows XP and doesn't depend on specialized device drivers (like iTunes or Fitbit), Wine is likely to run it.

Drew Sebastino wrote:
I know Windows instal sizes are only going to get bigger from here on out though...

Some users here complain about the 735 MB install size of Wine, but in practice, the install size of Windows has long since surpassed that of Xubuntu + Wine.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Batch files are very limited. That what I was using like, hmm, 28 years ago under dos?

If the batch files are simple they will be easily migrated to a bash script. You can even test it before migrating with the windows subsystem for linux on windows 10, which could be a good starting place for testing your scripts without installing a linux in a vm. I was using batch files at first for my project but now everything is either shell scripts with make files, more convenient.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:13 pm 
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So I've never been much of a Windows guy. OS X was awesome to me for a long time because it was a more mainstream Unix system. I've always kept a Windows computer (or a VM) around for some random software that I needed to run, but it was always just an expensive extra to me.

I'll use Windows for contract work when it's needed, but bah... Dealing with Win 10 in the last year has easily been the most frustration I've ever gotten out of it. Forced updates in the middle of the day while I'm using my computer, Windows Defender realtime protection kicking in and eating up a whole core every time PS4 clang starts compiling something, etc, etc, etc.

So I bought an extra SSD and put Ubuntu on it and used desktop Linux for the first time after ~15 years of using OS X. It was pretty immediately comfortable. (Obviously) all of the Unix stuff I was already comfortable with. If you squint the default shell (Gnome 3) was basically Windows and/or OS X without any of the crap that nobody asks for (like automatic forced updates, or app store lock-in). WINE worked flawlessly for every Windows tool I needed. Well over half of my Steam library was available. On our next contract project I used Ubuntu exclusively for "real" work for the first month. It was... really nice. SSH worked, mDNS worked, git worked, I didn't have to deal with "wrong" line endings, Unity basically worked, it was fast, it didn't randomly reboot for updates. When I eventually had to start booting into Windows to do game console builds again, LOL. Within one week every single one of those things were right back.

This forum has a rare breed of person that doesn't run screaming when assembly language is discussed. If you are that kind of person, then you can probably learn to use Linux effectively. Maybe you wont like it, but I think it's worth a try. My productivity is marginally better on Linux at best, but I don't constantly feel frustrated by it at least.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:41 pm 
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Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Banshaku wrote:
I was using batch files at first for my project but now everything is either shell scripts with make files, more convenient.

I now agree it's more convenient, but the learning curve for makefiles is rather high and they're rather confusing. For the first 5 years or so I had to work with linux systems I hated those.

Linux, while great for a lot of things, still has a lot of inconveniences. For instance I install a french version of the system, and for whathever reason Thunderbird is in english, and cannot be made speaking french. Or when updating the system, you frequently have some warnings or error messages in English only (no matter what language you installed the system in), it's necessary to search for the error messages on internet using a web-searcher, and to find forums or a SE question which are english only to find a solution. Also, for most distros, you need to use the command line and "sudo" even to do simple things that aren't harmful to your system, like to get any extra configuration. This is no major problem for me, but for 99% of the population this is a deal-breaker. This is the kind of things that makes the general population afraid of linux.

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This forum has a rare breed of person that doesn't run screaming when assembly language is discussed. If you are that kind of person, then you can probably learn to use Linux effectively.

Linux has nothing to do with assembly language. It's more about obscure technical configuration files hidden somewhere on your system and lacking some code in them, or stuff like that.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 pm 
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Its funny, I find Linux to be utterly incompetent. Its like OSX with twice the bugs. Do a search for files in the browser and watch the text box jump to some random spot in the bottom of the window. I install software that has an installer, and it still fails, and I have to dig though the multiple bin folders to find where it is and sudo run it manually. I honestly wonder what people do with it. No Office ( and no Open office, libre office etc are not replacements, they pail in comparison, I've tried them ), No Visual Studio so you are debugging on GDB, No fast and easy to use GUI programming to make quick tools in. No c64 sprite editors, char editors, map editors, most NES tools, SNES tools etc are all windows. I think you have a working Spotify, but no WinAmp as back up? No calc key, no Adobe Suite, Paint Shop Pro, Clip Studio, Corel Suite. Video editing, sewing machine software, steam games ( apart from 20 or so ), slack linux is in beta, no github desktop. no Regenerator or IGA, Netflix? Skype? Proper GPU Drivers, no Coarsair Cue. Can you watch a Blu ray? Burn a Blu Ray? Maths input tool? Cruncyroll? Sites that still need Flash like choosing your set at a concert? Print and Scan, Scan with full duplex and OCR? Snipping tool?

Lunduke has been basically making the same Linux sucks video for 18 years. He has even stopped making them, because he is sick of just repeating himself.

BATCH files are nice, and they usually get the job done. But if you want something more complex to do something harder. VBS and JSS are there, both of which blow bash away, and VBS has been there since Win98.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:49 am 
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^^ I have a hard time believing you're being serious, that sounds more than a bit like over-the-top parody.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:16 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:26 am
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I prefer Windows XP
Because on Windows XP the Path of Exile, my favorite currency farm game, worked best for me.
Many people ask me sometimes about whether it is worth - I answer - it is worth buying and selling orbs. Thanks to them you can know more about what items should be used and what are the current prices.
Vaal orb is similar in appearance to Exalted, but all of these orbs are essentially different from each other and have a completely different application.
On the other hand, I have never seen anyone confuse the orbs and exalted orbs, probably because it is the main currency and monetary unit in the path of exile. If you are looking for a suitable place to buy exalted orbs and poe currency, you should definitely try Odealo. There are the best prices and the cheapest poe currency. buy poe currency
These are just some of the reasons why I use Windows XP, I preferred it when it was updated and had support.


Last edited by Wallis on Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:42 am 
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Nope genuine question, how does one do all of those things? Can you even do all of them?

Every time I've taken a swig of the "this is the year of linux, this is the decade of linux" linux is good now, we fixed all the stuff", 20mins later, back on windows, because I can't do A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,X,Y,Z. Or you can do if I spend 4 days reading forums to duct tape something that kind of mostly does it, but with a lot of hassle.

One job I had to develop on linux, I could not find a GIT GUI app that did the most practical of things, and I'm happy with GIT Desktop on Windows, so my bar is low, very very low. Why don't they even make it on Linux.

Then I had to get video working on QT on Ubuntu, turns out not a great idea, some holy war between the devs, I played package bingo for 2 days before they decided it wasn't worth paying for my time to do it anymore.

I use Xilnix Devpack ISE, due to it not working on Windows 10, I decided to give the linux version a go, should be the same right? even has an installer.. dig though the file structure and sudo run something every time I want to run it...

I mean I've written this twice, because I went to the loo and Windows took the opportunity to reboot and install updates, I get the problems with Windows.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
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Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
How many of the missing "editors" work vs. don't work with Wine?

"NES tools"? The entire build process for all my own NES work as well as my contract work (Haunted: Halloween '85 and The Curse of Possum Hollow) runs on Linux, using GIMP, cc65, Python, Pillow (Python Imaging Library), and GNU Make.

What does Paint Shop Pro do that Krita and GIMP fail at? What does Microsoft Office do that LibreOffice fails at, other than run VBA-heavy Excel spreadsheets such as the feed validators that Amazon offers to sellers on its platform?

GitHub Desktop is available for X11/Linux. See shiftkey/desktop for binaries.

Slack.com works without problem in Chromium on Debian and Firefox on Ubuntu. So does Discordapp.com, with the exception that only Chromium and not Firefox can upload custom emoji to a server.


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