New tv set may not support rf?

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Banshaku
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New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Banshaku » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:45 am

I don't know if this is specific to my tv or Japan but it seems that recent television doesn't seems to like RF signal and shows nothing on it. There is what looks like RF input and usually we connect the antena for the digital signal but for an old famicom, nothing was shown. It I use my av famicom there is no issue.I remember that an old LCD TV had no issue with it though.

It is something common in the state too? I make as the maker of the TV out of curiosity since I would like to use my old famicom instead of the AV one when testing dev carts.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by lidnariq » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:06 am

In the US, a number of modern televisions have just dropped the type F connector altogether, instead being some combination of monitor and treacherous WiFi client.

But if you actually have whatever Japanese TVs use as input (looks like the same pair of type F and 300Ω twinlead that were used in US televisions?) then I suppose it's possible your TV only supports ISDB and not also NTSC...

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by dougeff » Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:50 am

People will have to buy adapters, if you use a modern TV and a retro console with RF output.

Does anyone remember when Cartman froze himself to not have to wait for a Wii, and woke up in the distant future, and they couldn't connect the Wii to the TV of the future?
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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by rainwarrior » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:24 am

Vizio has a line of "tuner-free Displays".
https://www.vizio.com/en-ca/tuner-free

I'm not sure if there's still some law that prohibits them from being called a "TV" in USA, or something like that.


Though, TBH, my current TV technically has a coaxial input / tuner but it's the worst quality I've ever encountered in something like that. Barely reliable, terrible picture. Might as well not even have been included. :P

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by PurpBoy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:27 am

lidnariq wrote:In the US, a number of modern televisions have just dropped the type F connector altogether, instead being some combination of monitor and treacherous WiFi client.

But if you actually have whatever Japanese TVs use as input (looks like the same pair of type F and 300Ω twin lead that were used in US televisions?) then I suppose it's possible your TV only supports ISDB and not also NTSC...
Yeah I think is more of a North American thing. That said, the output I use here (Canada) works in other countries as well. So I'm kind of confused why it would be any different for TV. Hope you kept the invoice just as a precautionary measure. Pal and NTSC is definitely a thing though and it makes no sense why it's like that. As long as you are reducing such errors, things should be fine. Why have the same power i / o but different system completely. (Hippie voice) Unify maaaaaaan!
Last edited by PurpBoy on Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:32 am, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by TmEE » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:50 pm

Most new TVs here only do DVB via the tuner input, normal analog stuff is not supported.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by tokumaru » Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:44 pm

I expect support for RF and composite to be dropped very soon.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by tepples » Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:09 pm

Dropping RF in is fine as long as you're clearly selling a "monitor". But dropping composite in will generate a lot of tech support calls from customers of cable TV providers that charge a monthly surcharge for high-definition service.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Bregalad » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:20 am

Wow, I'm amazed there's countries whre RF hasn't been dropped yet. Here it has been dropped completely at least 8 years ago.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by tepples » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:44 am

But then countries in Europe are more likely to levy an annual tax on owners of "TVs", or devices that can receive RF broadcasts, to pay for public broadcasting. (It's as if instead of annual pledge drives, PBS had vans to detect the telltale emissions of demodulating a TV broadcast.) So there's a tax avoidance incentive toward buying a living-room-sized "monitor" that doesn't exist in the United States, where PBS is funded by a mix of private charitable foundations and voluntary contributions to local affiliate stations from viewers like you. (Thank you!)

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Banshaku » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:20 am

@lidnariq

I guess that must be the issue I have then. The TV was bought a few years after Japan became all digital in 2011 (there was a delay because of the big earthquake but only for specific regions).

The TV we borrowed at first was pre-2011 and there was no issue with it. For now I rarely use them and the one with RCA jacks are fine but I will need to find a solution someday.

Thank you for confirming my doubts.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Banshaku » Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:14 pm

I'm sorry for the double post but I thought that creating a new thread just to ask about modulator(?) was not appropriate in that case.

I remember when we were kids, the cheapest way was to use a vhs and just use that as intermediary to convert the signal and it was more than enough, especially with a not so great tv. Now that TV sets became better, if I buy a modulator, I guess I should go for one that goes directly from rf/rca to HDMI instead of a simple one that could convert from rf to rca?

I still need to do research on the subject but the first one I found seemed huge and expensive for something that doesn't do much and the same thing found on amazon us was 3 time the price on Japanese site (I guess they just imported it from the us). In that case, it may be better to look for something sold locally (from io-data, buffalo, elecom etc or similar japanese brands).

What are people experience with modulators? I think that was maybe thread about it (?).

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Sumez » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:30 pm

I haven't seen a new TV with analog RF support for like 6-7 years or more around here. I am surprised to hear they still made them.

No big loss anyway, I'm not sure why anyone would want that travesty.
Potentially losing 15khz altogether (via composite, or even worse, RGB) is much worse. But considering how terrible modern TVs are at upscaling those signals already, it's practically already happened when it comes to the goal of playing video games.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by Sumez » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:36 pm

tepples wrote:But then countries in Europe are more likely to levy an annual tax on owners of "TVs", or devices that can receive RF broadcasts, to pay for public broadcasting. (It's as if instead of annual pledge drives, PBS had vans to detect the telltale emissions of demodulating a TV broadcast.) So there's a tax avoidance incentive toward buying a living-room-sized "monitor" that doesn't exist in the United States, where PBS is funded by a mix of private charitable foundations and voluntary contributions to local affiliate stations from viewers like you. (Thank you!)
None of this really applies to the real world. No one is buying monitors to avoid this fee. The TV license fee you're thinking of (which is NOT a tax in any countries I know of, which is another big issue) doesn't apply to being able to receive RF signals anymore, and hasn't since like the 80s. Any way you are able to receive the covered TV channels applies, which of course includes the digital tuners, but also cable services, etc.
Essentially if you own any single devices with the ability to go online (like, say, a phone), you need to pay. Basically, if you breathe, you need to pay.

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Re: New tv set may not support rf?

Post by tepples » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:57 am

If the TV license has become a capitation, then why don't governments avoid the additional cost of collecting the TV license and just take it out of income tax? The US does that for its fraction of public media funding, which comes through Corporation for Public Broadcasting as well as subject matter agencies such as National Science Foundation and National Endownment for the Arts.

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