It is currently Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:18 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Since the birth of Mega man was on the nes I think it's worth talking about the latest version, which is 11 and came out yesterday. Have anybody tested it yet? I haven't, but for now by looking at the 3D rendered graphics in a 2.5 plane, I think I still enjoy more to some degree the sprite based one but since we are retro gamers that must be one bias that we have anyway :lol:

Some part look fine, other I'm more irked like "why" does mega man now have to wear a suit that is similar to the defeated robot master :? Maybe it is explained it the story but it seems so odd even though I'm no hardcore mega man fan.

What are the hardcore fans think about it, it or miss? :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6889
Location: Canada
There's a demo version out which I played on PS4. TBH I didn't enjoy it much. (I was a big fan of MM9 and 10 though.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Since I do not have access to the latest console these days the only platform available is my old PC but the specs should be fine. I just checked but unfortunately there is no demo for the PC as of now.

I guess people know already that I prefer the older style one (the kids like 10 because of the easy option ^^;;) but the one I never had time to finish are 7,8, Forte & Bass. Never touched X since I don't know much about the story behind it. Maybe someday.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10899
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
I don't have a gaming PC or a modern console, so I can't really check out new games. From the little I've seen I think it looks decent. As for Mega Man having different designs when using other weapons, I'm not really surprised, considering that 3D model swaps nowadays are as easy as palette swaps were back in the day.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:03 am
Posts: 614
If you play one Megaman and only one Megaman make it X ;)

2-5 are great and all but there is as reason why X is held in such reverence.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6889
Location: Canada
tokumaru wrote:
I don't have a gaming PC or a modern console, so I can't really check out new games. From the little I've seen I think it looks decent. As for Mega Man having different designs when using other weapons, I'm not really surprised, considering that 3D model swaps nowadays are as easy as palette swaps were back in the day.

I thought the graphics were fine. The model changes to show how Mega Man has equipped the powers is good. I just didn't really like the way it played.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 773
Location: Denmark (PAL)
I preordered the game, but I had to order from the US, so it probably won't be here in a few weeks.

I played the demo though, and the controls are super smooth and on point. It's slightly different from the NES titles which took a little getting used to, but not much. The game plays completely like it should, and a lot of thought were put into the stage design, which works really well, and is much more classic Mega Man than MM9 and 10 which IMO completely misunderstood what Mega Man is about.

Now the big issue with the game is the new addition of gear powers.
It has one button to immediately make your attacks do more damage, and another one to slow down everything but Mega Man. Especially the latter is essentially a "win button", taking any challenge and trivializing it. On one hand the stage is clearly designed around the existence of this feature, but on the other hand it never requires usage of it, aside from optional stuff like an E-tank.
After fooling around a bit with this slowdown power and using it to wade through some of the obstacles in the stage, I started just not using it at all, and the game immediately became much much better.
Every obstacle is designed so that it feels like the natural challenge is beating it without the power, but the game does absolutely nothing to restrict your usage of it, or otherwise encourage you to avoid it, which is disappointing considering how much more fun the game is without it. You will overheat if you activate it for too long, but that only has the effect of effectively encouraging stopping to recharge. Another thing that isn't fun in an action game.

Compare the slide added in Mega Man 3 which could be used to both overcome certain obstacles, but also made the game more fun to play. Here we have a new addition that can be used to completely trivialize them and as a result makes the game less fun.

Supposedly the game also has the shop, which was also always a terrible thing to have in a Mega Man game. It's supposed to be a fast paced linear action game, not a grind for currency to buy items that make the game easier. Hopefully it's just placed there to accomodate "casuals" and the game is still balanced around not using those upgrades.


Banshaku wrote:
"why" does mega man now have to wear a suit that is similar to the defeated robot master :? Maybe it is explained it the story but it seems so odd even though I'm no hardcore mega man fan.


As I recall from interviews, that was supposedly the original idea for Mega Man, having different helmets representing the powers that he assimilated, as with his inspiration in various Sentai series. I'm guessing due to cart size restrictions they ended up going with just a palette change, and this is the first game to go back to that original idea.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 4093
ZX had a full costume change as well.

_________________
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
@Oziphantom

I don't know why I didn't play any X ones. I may have tried the first one (it came out on PC if my memory is good) but just tried it a little bit. I guess I started to play less games after 6 and except recently (9-10), I didn't play any mega man game. Will give it a try then. What is the level of difficulty compared to 1~6?

@Sumez

I wasn't aware of them. I'm so used to the old ones that it feel strange a little bit.

@Dwedit

Oh, I didn't have a chance to play those ones that Inti creates made so I didn't know about that. I don't know much about the ZX series, may have saw some screenshots and that's it. What's special about it? I think it not close to the original story, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 6889
Location: Canada
Sumez wrote:
I played the demo though, and the controls are super smooth and on point. It's slightly different from the NES titles which took a little getting used to, but not much. The game plays completely like it should, and a lot of thought were put into the stage design, which works really well, and is much more classic Mega Man than MM9 and 10 which IMO completely misunderstood what Mega Man is about.

I agree the controls work well. The engine seems mechanically just fine to me.

I just didn't like how the level played, or the bosses. The details of why would be a long discussion, but the high level thing is that it feels pretty much like a Mega Man game, except some factors of design are tuned in a way that I don't enjoy. It's like a hundred subtle details that bug me. Someone with different tastes than me might like it a lot.

(I watched someone play a bunch of the full version too and the design seemed fairly consistent across the few levels I watched them play through.)

The gear system I thought was fine. Reminds me a little of the rush adapter thing in MM6. Same with the shop, I didn't mind those in MM9/10.

This is tons better than Mighty No. 9, by the way. I'd gladly say that this is a pretty capable Mega Man game.

(Interesting to me that you think MM9 and 10 missed the point... I thought they were both excellent. I'd actually say that 9 was my favourite of the classic Mega Man series.)

Mega Man X is a really good one. The later X series on PS1 etc. got a bit weird to me, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 773
Location: Denmark (PAL)
Banshaku wrote:
I don't know why I didn't play any X ones. I may have tried the first one (it came out on PC if my memory is good) but just tried it a little bit. I guess I started to play less games after 6 and except recently (9-10), I didn't play any mega man game. Will give it a try then. What is the level of difficulty compared to 1~6?

Overall, I think the first three X games are a little harder than any of the NES games (which aren't really as difficult as some people will make you think).
They are balanced a little differently though, with more focus on using upgrades to alleviate some of the difficulty, adding the ability to upgrade your hit points and armor, etc. This also makes the game more of a treasure hunt than the classic straightforward action games, and replaying stages is often encouraged. Also, a majority of the boss fights can be completely trivialised by using their weakness, as they will often simplify their pattern, stun them, or break an attack, compared to the classic Mega Man games which would just deal more damage.

Mega Man X in general is a great game though, and especially at the time when it came out it felt like a natural and sensible progression of the Mega Man series. That said, I'd still say at least Mega Man 3 and 4 are definitely better games.

rainwarrior wrote:
Mega Man X is a really good one. The later X series on PS1 etc. got a bit weird to me, though.
X4 is different, but still a really good game. X5 and X6 are both completely terrible.

rainwarrior wrote:
(Interesting to me that you think MM9 and 10 missed the point... I thought they were both excellent. I'd actually say that 9 was my favourite of the classic Mega Man series.)

I realise that a lot of people liked what 9 and 10 did, but it's just a completely different style of game than the classic Mega Man games, so it's very viable that your mileage may vary even if you are a fan of the old games.

Overall I just felt the challenges didn't have the same organic flow as the classic games. They often felt much more strict in how you approach them, more punishing, and often somewhat unfair. The games require a lot of memorizing of stages in order to have a chance of getting all the way through them. That is further complicated by the absurdly long stages.
I think it's made especially obvious by the way the game approaches the disappearing blocks. A "classic" Mega Man element that was always one of the weakest points of each game. The classic games handled them nicely though, usually only outright killing you from missing a block at the final "puzzle" of the single stage that had them, and always including one or more ways of bypassing them. And by Mega Man 5 they were pretty much purged from the game entirely. Meanwhile Mega Man 9 brings them back in full force, in multiple stages, makes them last much longer, and increases the punishment for failing.
To me that makes the game feel more like heavy pressure than fast paced fun. But I get why opinions might differ.

I think MM9 and MM10 are games designed more around the "modern" approach of splitting games into bite-sized challenges, focusing on beating on stage at a time, rather than mastering the entire game. Similarly to approaching a Dark Souls game from one bonfire to the next, and it doesn't matter how many times you die inbetween each.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7548
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Sumez wrote:
I think it's made especially obvious by the way the game approaches the disappearing blocks. A "classic" Mega Man element that was always one of the weakest points of each game. The classic games handled them nicely though, usually only outright killing you from missing a block at the final "puzzle" of the single stage that had them, and always including one or more ways of bypassing them. And by Mega Man 5 they were pretty much purged from the game entirely. Meanwhile Mega Man 9 brings them back in full force, in multiple stages, makes them last much longer, and increases the punishment for failing.

About disapearing blocks, I'm pretty sure they were already removed in Mega Man 4 but were re-introduced in Mega Man 7 (a game which while good was particularly unoriginal, recycling component from the previously released games in the series instead of innovating).

Quote:
Overall, I think the first three X games are a little harder than any of the NES games (which aren't really as difficult as some people will make you think).

To each their own, I always found Mega Man 4 was by far the harder in the NES series but most people disagree on this. Mega Man X is very easy except the final boss. Mega Man X2 is not hard, but if you want to do a perfect play, killing the two major optional boss, then it get much harder. Mega Man X3 was quite hard if I remember well especially the final stages, and also it was very hard if you wanted to kill the optional bosses. You couldn't even skip them if you wanted to, as opposed to X2.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 773
Location: Denmark (PAL)
Bregalad wrote:
About disapearing blocks, I'm pretty sure they were already removed in Mega Man 4 but were re-introduced in Mega Man 7 (a game which while good was particularly unoriginal, recycling component from the previously released games in the series instead of innovating).


I think the NES games show really well that you don't need to innovate to make a great Mega Man game.
I'd say MM7 is definitely an outlier though, and I didn't really include anything past the NES generation when I talked about "classic Mega Man games". The game has some qualities, but mostly it has a really slow and sluggish pace, and the level design overall isn't as fun. The same goes for Rockman & Forte. The only of the "modern classic" Mega Man games that I really liked is MM8. And a lot of people still hate that one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 773
Location: Denmark (PAL)
Ok, real talk now that I have received the game... This game is awesome! It's absolutely genuine original Mega Man. It is clear the the developers paid attention to all the little details in the design of a classic Mega Man game to figure out exactly what choices matter in the game design. Stuff like how individual challenges are separated into specific rooms, or how many shots it takes to kill an enemy (usually 1 shot, 2 shots or a full charge + 1), etc. They even had the guts to add new ideas like using a full charge shot to disarm a shielded enemy (like a sniper joe or metall, etc.) and it actually works great.

The boss fights are great! I don't know why they picked blockman for the demo, because both he and his midboss sucks, but every other boss fight in the game has been superb.

The gear powers don't bother me at all. I barely ever use them except from a few select sections where I planned my strategy around them. I try to not rely on them at all whenever possible.
The boss powers however, are some of the best in the series, and all have great utility that allows creative solutions to most of the game's obstacles.

Play this game.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Mega man 11 is out
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:38 pm
Posts: 2004
Location: Fukuoka, Japan
I see. I there is an easy mode then the kids may be able to play it after all. For now it's a little bit expensive in Japan so I will wait a little bit before getting it. Would have loved a demo for PC though.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group