Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

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Pokun
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Pokun » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am

Yes, and that's also what I theorized about earlier in this thread. Underground levels is also not a problem as that's just the same situation as Mario Bros. Though later Mario games debunks this as blocks are really floating freely there. Still, that could have been the original intention that was just forgotten about when Super Mario RPG started doing floating blocks (or the Valiant comics before that).

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:20 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:03 pm
Of course ghosts don't exist in real life. If they did, death would have much less meaning than it does in real life.
It's the other way around. Death has much meaning in real life because we can't prove that ghosts doesn't exist and because we have no way to know what waits the other side of Styx.
If ghosts actually did exist, it makes death less meaningful because our conscience would still exist after death and we can still think and directly affect the world.
But does it really make a difference if you don't know if ghosts exists or not? How would you know to what extent ghosts could directly affect the physical world in the first place?

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:20 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Fri Dec 11, 2020 9:03 pm
Honestly, when playing Mario games, I actually was never sure if Boos were ever another species at one point that's already dead, or if they were always Boos from beginning to end. I probably won't take Paper Mario games into account, as they could have a different continuity from regular Mario games.
My interpretation is that they are just lingering spirits (any species) just like ghosts in other work. They could have some reason they can't or don't want to leave the world of the living, and therefore stays and wrecks havoc. There are other variants of ghosts than the boos though and they often represent a particular species. There are dinosaur ghosts in SMW (I forgot their name), fishing boo is a lakitu ghost and there are gargantua blargg ghosts in Yoshi Island.
Hmm... thinking about it, that would make Professor E. Gadd pretty cruel since he collects them and locks them into paintings rather than exorcising them.
Nice interpretation m8. Then again, why would you want to leave the world of the living? No one's life is ever fully fulfilled 100%. If hell exists, no one would want to go to it.

I don't know why you'd care about the rights of ghosts but okay.
Usually lingering spirits are the spirits of deceased ones that has some kind of strong feelings to the living world and can't leave it because of that. Usually regret and sometimes they want revenge and can become cruel spirits because of that. You would want to exorcise them to send them to the next world where they belong (which doesn't necessarily have to be a hell). Sealing them would only postpone the problem and their suffering. Of course professor Gadd is a scientist and not a priest, so he might only be able to do the next best thing.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:20 am
I also always never understood that about Mario being from Brooklyn as it was never a thing in any game by Nintendo. It was exclusively American media that pressed this AFAIK.
Mario was named after the late Mario Segale, a landlord who owned a house Nintendo of America employees were renting. Take that into account, and it makes more sense(though they got the state different).
Yeah but was Segale from Brooklyn or what? Wikipedia says he's born in Seattle. Luigi got his name from a local pizza place for the NOA staff called Mario & Luigi's, so yeah I get the Italian part, but I have a feeling that the Italian-plumber-from-Brooklyn thing is some kind of joke that only makes sense to Americans, which is why it never caught on anywhere else, and especially not at Nintendo.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am

Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 7:20 am

It's the other way around. Death has much meaning in real life because we can't prove that ghosts doesn't exist and because we have no way to know what waits the other side of Styx.
If ghosts actually did exist, it makes death less meaningful because our conscience would still exist after death and we can still think and directly affect the world.
But does it really make a difference if you don't know if ghosts exists or not? How would you know to what extent ghosts could directly affect the physical world in the first place?
It can make a difference for certain decisions, like what to do after someone dies.

For example, you could treat them with utter respect even though they don't exist anymore, or you can just try to dispose of their corpse and keep their belongings and move on.

Though the former would probably be done anyway because you had a good relationship with said dead person and/or you want to keep a good relationship with said person's friends and family.

The way you respect dead people could also be affected by your beliefs on afterlife. Ancient Egyptians wrapped corpses in linen and tried to embalm them before putting them in a sarcophagus because they thought the body's condition would still be connected to the person's dead conscience.

To answer the latter, I was talking about if they existed and were just like in the Mario games.
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Usually lingering spirits are the spirits of deceased ones that has some kind of strong feelings to the living world and can't leave it because of that. Usually regret and sometimes they want revenge and can become cruel spirits because of that. You would want to exorcise them to send them to the next world where they belong (which doesn't necessarily have to be a hell). Sealing them would only postpone the problem and their suffering. Of course professor Gadd is a scientist and not a priest, so he might only be able to do the next best thing.
Nice, but I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Mario was named after the late Mario Segale, a landlord who owned a house Nintendo of America employees were renting. Take that into account, and it makes more sense(though they got the state different).
Yeah but was Segale from Brooklyn or what? Wikipedia says he's born in Seattle. Luigi got his name from a local pizza place for the NOA staff called Mario & Luigi's, so yeah I get the Italian part, but I have a feeling that the Italian-plumber-from-Brooklyn thing is some kind of joke that only makes sense to Americans, which is why it never caught on anywhere else, and especially not at Nintendo.
I literally just said that they got the state different. Maybe NoA forgot Segale's specific state and just knew he's an American that Mario was named after, and they just thought about NYC specifically just because of common stereotypes. The NYC thing might not make much sense to Japan, though.

I have no clue if NoJ was aware of Mario Segale's state of birth, but something tells me that even if they were, they wouldn't have cared anyway, because it's just a Mario game.
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Pokun » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:25 pm

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
It can make a difference for certain decisions, like what to do after someone dies.
I see it was a personal opinion rather than about proof of the existence of ghosts.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Usually lingering spirits are the spirits of deceased ones that has some kind of strong feelings to the living world and can't leave it because of that. Usually regret and sometimes they want revenge and can become cruel spirits because of that. You would want to exorcise them to send them to the next world where they belong (which doesn't necessarily have to be a hell). Sealing them would only postpone the problem and their suffering. Of course professor Gadd is a scientist and not a priest, so he might only be able to do the next best thing.
Nice, but I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
Hard to tell, but I understand it as the natural thing to do as a ghost, as the world of the living is no place for the dead. So you could equally easily ask, why would you want to stay in the world of the living when you are dead? Of course not everyone wants to accept death and keeps clinging to the world of the living, one reason they become lingering spirits.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sat Dec 12, 2020 4:37 pm
Mario was named after the late Mario Segale, a landlord who owned a house Nintendo of America employees were renting. Take that into account, and it makes more sense(though they got the state different).
Yeah but was Segale from Brooklyn or what? Wikipedia says he's born in Seattle. Luigi got his name from a local pizza place for the NOA staff called Mario & Luigi's, so yeah I get the Italian part, but I have a feeling that the Italian-plumber-from-Brooklyn thing is some kind of joke that only makes sense to Americans, which is why it never caught on anywhere else, and especially not at Nintendo.
I literally just said that they got the state different. Maybe NoA forgot Segale's specific state and just knew he's an American that Mario was named after, and they just thought about NYC specifically just because of common stereotypes. The NYC thing might not make much sense to Japan, though.

I have no clue if NoJ was aware of Mario Segale's state of birth, but something tells me that even if they were, they wouldn't have cared anyway, because it's just a Mario game.
So you mean Brooklyn was just what they thought Segale were from, or alternatively some cultural stereotype associated with Brooklyn?
Yeah Nintendo headquarters obviously didn't understand those things (they even got the meaning of "donkey" incorrect). They probably just heard from NOA that they wanted to name the mascot Mario, and accepted it. Similarly they accepted Luigi and thought it was great because it sounded like ruiji ("similarity" in Japanese), as Luigi was still just a palette-swapped Mario.
Lady got her name from one of the NOA people's fiancée Pauline, but they kept her as Lady in Japan until the Game Boy Donkey Kong game. Apparently Japanese audience thought that Lady and Pauline were two different characters for a long time, partly thanks to her redesign in that game and later ones.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:25 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
Nice, but I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
Hard to tell, but I understand it as the natural thing to do as a ghost, as the world of the living is no place for the dead. So you could equally easily ask, why would you want to stay in the world of the living when you are dead? Of course not everyone wants to accept death and keeps clinging to the world of the living, one reason they become lingering spirits.
Okay, but how would you know at death:

0. That you are dead but somehow still able to :thonk:. If you believed in eternal oblivion, you wouldn't know you were just proven wrong, and you wouldn't understand anything.
1. That there's at least 1 world for alive consciences and 1 world for dead consciences.
2. How to go to the dead conscience world at death.
3. That you even have a choice on what world to go to.
4. What the dead conscience world is even like. The suspense on finding out what the different worlds are like is a double-edged sword. On one hand, you can go to the world at death to see for yourself what it's like, but on the other hand, you'd probably want to stay because you are afraid the dead conscience world is going to be eternal torture.
5. Whether or not going to the dead conscience world is about what you want or about the fate of the universe or some bollocks like that.
6. Why consciences must be segregated based on life status.

Holy shit, did I just roast spiritualism?
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by tepples » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
But does it really make a difference if you don't know if ghosts exists or not? How would you know to what extent ghosts could directly affect the physical world in the first place?
If they can affect the physical world, then there'd be evidence of it.
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Usually lingering spirits are the spirits of deceased ones that has some kind of strong feelings to the living world and can't leave it because of that. Usually regret and sometimes they want revenge and can become cruel spirits because of that. You would want to exorcise them to send them to the next world where they belong (which doesn't necessarily have to be a hell).
I've seen this before. Both the 1995 film Casper and the TV series The Ghost Whisperer center around therapists who help take care of ghosts' unfinished business so that they can cross over to the next world.
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
To get the purgatory process done sooner rather than later, presumably.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm

tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
But does it really make a difference if you don't know if ghosts exists or not? How would you know to what extent ghosts could directly affect the physical world in the first place?
If they can affect the physical world, then there'd be evidence of it.
Inb4 'butt der iz evidunss of it. da man iz juss tryna hide shit mah bro. juss look at dis dem viral video.'
tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
Usually lingering spirits are the spirits of deceased ones that has some kind of strong feelings to the living world and can't leave it because of that. Usually regret and sometimes they want revenge and can become cruel spirits because of that. You would want to exorcise them to send them to the next world where they belong (which doesn't necessarily have to be a hell).
I've seen this before. Both the 1995 film Casper and the TV series The Ghost Whisperer center around therapists who help take care of ghosts' unfinished business so that they can cross over to the next world.
I didn't know Casper was therapist all along. Now his creepy interactions with that human kid make much more sense...

c a n i k e e p y o u
tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
To get the purgatory process done sooner rather than later, presumably.
Imagine wanting to be eternally tortured so bad. Just shows how bad 2020 is smh
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by 93143 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:11 pm

tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
purgatory
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm
eternally tortured
You might want to look up a word.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:53 am

93143 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:11 pm
tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
purgatory
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm
eternally tortured
You might want to look up a word.
Oh, and another thing, you won't know exactly where you end up. You could end up in purgatory, or a place of eternal reward, or a place of eternal torture, or something else. You don't know, but you'd prepare for the worst.
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Pokun » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:25 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:54 am
Nice, but I was asking why, as a ghost, you would want to leave the world of the living when you die.
Hard to tell, but I understand it as the natural thing to do as a ghost, as the world of the living is no place for the dead. So you could equally easily ask, why would you want to stay in the world of the living when you are dead? Of course not everyone wants to accept death and keeps clinging to the world of the living, one reason they become lingering spirits.
Okay, but how would you know at death:

0. That you are dead but somehow still able to :thonk:. If you believed in eternal oblivion, you wouldn't know you were just proven wrong, and you wouldn't understand anything.
1. That there's at least 1 world for alive consciences and 1 world for dead consciences.
2. How to go to the dead conscience world at death.
3. That you even have a choice on what world to go to.
4. What the dead conscience world is even like. The suspense on finding out what the different worlds are like is a double-edged sword. On one hand, you can go to the world at death to see for yourself what it's like, but on the other hand, you'd probably want to stay because you are afraid the dead conscience world is going to be eternal torture.
5. Whether or not going to the dead conscience world is about what you want or about the fate of the universe or some bollocks like that.
6. Why consciences must be segregated based on life status.
0. If you are dead and still able to do things you would probably notice it wouldn't you? Then again there are stories of ghosts that don't realize that they are dead and continues in something that resembles their normal life.
I don't know how being obliterated would be, as oblivion is the lack of experiencing things per definition.
1, 2, 3 and 5. If it's the natural way of the dead you would probably have some way of knowing where to go. Otherwise there are probably signs, or you could ask Yama or St Peter or something.
4. I don't see any point in rushing it, and I certainly don't want to bring up suicide to the discussion.
6. You are basically asking why life and death exists. I'm not sure there are any kind of teaching that has a good answer to such fundamental questions of existance, be it scientific or philosophical/religious.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm
Holy shit, did I just roast spiritualism?
No, I really don't think it would be that easy.

tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
Pokun wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:21 am
But does it really make a difference if you don't know if ghosts exists or not? How would you know to what extent ghosts could directly affect the physical world in the first place?
If they can affect the physical world, then there'd be evidence of it.
Yeah maybe, unless maybe if it was a natural part of the world that wouldn't be noticed unless it was absent.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm

Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
0. If you are dead and still able to do things you would probably notice it wouldn't you? Then again there are stories of ghosts that don't realize that they are dead and continues in something that resembles their normal life.
How would you notice you are dead? If you remember, how would you be able to tell that it's not some weird dream or something? Dreams can feel real, but that doesn't mean they are.
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
I don't know how being obliterated would be, as oblivion is the lack of experiencing things per definition.
I think it'd probably be the same as me not being obliterated, for the rest of the world. As for what the dead person would experience, it'd be irrelevant because they'd no longer exist at all, so there is no remaining conscience for them to experience anything.
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
1, 2, 3 and 5. If it's the natural way of the dead you would probably have some way of knowing where to go. Otherwise there are probably signs, or you could ask Yama or St Peter or something.
If there was no way of knowing where to go, you wouldn't know where to find people to ask, or even people you can ask.

OwO I see you are a man of culture as well.
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
4. I don't see any point in rushing it, and I certainly don't want to bring up suicide to the discussion.
Okay, but I was also talking about waiting until death normally, like for example, when you're elder or terminally sick.
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
6. You are basically asking why life and death exists. I'm not sure there are any kind of teaching that has a good answer to such fundamental questions of existance, be it scientific or philosophical/religious.
We know a bit about why life and death happen. There are many, many causes of death for many organisms.

Organisms have to take energy and use it, but there are going to be factors that limit how they take energy.

Many living things eventually get older, but as a natural part of the ageing process, their body systems become weaker and weaker and also more likely to get some sort of disease that kills the organism.

Their body systems can also be breached in some manner major enough to make their whole body abort all of their body processes, whether it's through a sharp object, a fast object, an internal intruder, or something else.

What I was asking is why the consciences are separated in a world where such things are still operating after all of the body systems, including the ones responsible for controlling their brains, have ceased.

Real-life religions are dogmatic sets of ideas made to control people, and part of that is trying to explain things we didn't or still don't know. Many of them thus touch on the way the afterlife works, as a way to exploit people's sensitive feelings towards death. If you will be somehow rewarded when you die as long as you do certain things, it'd make you want to do said things.

As for the scientific side, we can't prove an afterlife. Because of that, you can't carefully plan science that takes advantage of or experiments with such a thing, since science by its very nature requires evidence.
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:19 pm
Holy shit, did I just roast spiritualism?
No, I really don't think it would be that easy.
Yeah, I guess I'm not DarkMatter2525. Still got to admit this thread went a weird direction. Hope I don't get banned.
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by tepples » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:07 pm

Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm
I didn't know Casper was therapist all along. Now his creepy interactions with that human kid make much more sense...
Dr. James Harvey (Bill Pullman) is therapist whose daughter Kat (Christina Ricci) has befriended Casper (voice of Malachi Pearson). Like Melinda Gordon (Jennifer Love Hewitt) in the TV series Ghost Whisperer a decade later, Dr. Harvey talks ghosts through their unfinished business to help them cross over.
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm
tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
To get the purgatory process done sooner rather than later, presumably.
Imagine wanting to be eternally tortured so bad. Just shows how bad 2020 is smh
Purgatory, as I understand it, is a temporary state of having one's sins burnt off as one is prepared for the next life.
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
How would you notice you are dead? If you remember, how would you be able to tell that it's not some weird dream or something? Dreams can feel real, but that doesn't mean they are.
A dream state has more lack of object permanence for things around you. Things you do get undone once you return to the scene. An example is defeating enemies in Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness and scrolling them back on to never have been defeated. Afterlife lasts longer. An episode of The Ghost Whisperer with a character in a coma shows that the line between the two isn't sharp though.

The Sixth Sense and Ghost Dad are evidence that some can't tell they're dead. By contrast, Casper compares death to being born except backwards. Serious physical changes occur to the residual self-image: one finger is lost, the legs fuse into a tail (as with merpeople), attempting to eat causes the food to fall through the body, leaning on a wall may cause falling through if not careful, etc. Now if ghosts can fly/float/hover, what keeps them from floating off into space due to the 2 to 3 cm/s² centripetal acceleration of points on Earth's surface as the planet turns?
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Still got to admit this thread went a weird direction. Hope I don't get banned.
I see no reason to worry. I find design of an afterlife mechanic for a work of fiction to be an interesting topic. The hard part is finding a good place to split the money stuff from the ghost stuff.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:11 pm

tepples wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:07 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:57 pm
tepples wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:04 pm
To get the purgatory process done sooner rather than later, presumably.
Imagine wanting to be eternally tortured so bad. Just shows how bad 2020 is smh
Purgatory, as I understand it, is a temporary state of having one's sins burnt off as one is prepared for the next life.
If your weird fantasy world even has a reincarnation system.
tepples wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:07 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
How would you notice you are dead? If you remember, how would you be able to tell that it's not some weird dream or something? Dreams can feel real, but that doesn't mean they are.
A dream state has more lack of object permanence for things around you. Things you do get undone once you return to the scene. An example is defeating enemies in Super Mario Bros. 2: Mario Madness and scrolling them back on to never have been defeated. Afterlife lasts longer.
It's not like people generally notice their dream is a dream. Lucid dreaming is a rare thing, and does not reflect the majority of dreams people have.

Whenever I dream at least, I never know I'm in a dream until the second I wake up. I never notice shite doesn't make sense because I'm still asleep for fuck's sake.
tepples wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:07 pm
The Sixth Sense and Ghost Dad are evidence that some can't tell they're dead. By contrast, Casper compares death to being born except backwards. Serious physical changes occur to the residual self-image: one finger is lost, the legs fuse into a tail (as with merpeople), attempting to eat causes the food to fall through the body, leaning on a wall may cause falling through if not careful, etc. Now if ghosts can fly/float/hover, what keeps them from floating off into space due to the 2 to 3 cm/s² centripetal acceleration of points on Earth's surface as the planet turns?
Lol, I love how you use words like 'evidence' as if you actually think fiction is valid 'evidence' that points to a single thing about ghosts as if they're in real life or some shite rather than just being what it is: fiction with its own continuity and its own completely different universe with its own completely different rules.

Then again, your case of bad wording might just be more severe than mine.
tepples wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:07 pm
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Still got to admit this thread went a weird direction. Hope I don't get banned.
I see no reason to worry. I find design of an afterlife mechanic for a work of fiction to be an interesting topic. The hard part is finding a good place to split the money stuff from the ghost stuff.
Yeah, that sucks when something is so interwoven into a discussion that it's hard to cleanly moderate and pin the blame on a specific person to take action against.
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by tepples » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:12 am

Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:11 pm
It's not like people generally notice their dream is a dream. Lucid dreaming is a rare thing, and does not reflect the majority of dreams people have.
In the context of telling an afterlife from a dream, the longer a dream continues, the more likely one is to become lucid enough to realize that the escape unit (to wake up) is no longer connected, making this state the new normal.
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:11 pm
I love how you use words like 'evidence' as if you actually think fiction is valid 'evidence' that points to a single thing about ghosts
[...]
Then again, your case of bad wording might just be more severe than mine.
I guess I use the term "evidence" with respect to fictional universes to refer to evidence that a particular set of behaviors in a narrative A. can communicate a set of powers and limits to viewers to hold their interest, and B. is widespread enough not to lead to accusations of copying.

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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Pokun » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:30 am

Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
I don't know how being obliterated would be, as oblivion is the lack of experiencing things per definition.
I think it'd probably be the same as me not being obliterated, for the rest of the world. As for what the dead person would experience, it'd be irrelevant because they'd no longer exist at all, so there is no remaining conscience for them to experience anything.
Yes but that's what's hard to imagine. I can't imagine not imagining anything. Consciousness isn't really explained very well anywhere.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
1, 2, 3 and 5. If it's the natural way of the dead you would probably have some way of knowing where to go. Otherwise there are probably signs, or you could ask Yama or St Peter or something.
If there was no way of knowing where to go, you wouldn't know where to find people to ask, or even people you can ask.
Yeah that's one way one may become a lingering spirit. Part of the burial ceremony might be to guide the dead on the right path using bells and lanterns and stuff. Then there are festivals of the dead (like Halloween or similar festivals) that may also serve a similar purpose.
But there must be some way to know where to go anyway, otherwise everyone would just become lingering spirits.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
6. You are basically asking why life and death exists. I'm not sure there are any kind of teaching that has a good answer to such fundamental questions of existance, be it scientific or philosophical/religious.
We know a bit about why life and death happen. There are many, many causes of death for many organisms.
...
What I was asking is why the consciences are separated in a world where such things are still operating after all of the body systems, including the ones responsible for controlling their brains, have ceased.
I still only see a question of existence, why things are as they are, what a consciousness is. Fundamentally we know nothing.

Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Real-life religions are dogmatic sets of ideas made to control people, and part of that is trying to explain things we didn't or still don't know.
I think there is a big misunderstanding concerning religion and mythology going on in the world. Religion is often seen as a twisted scheme solely created by some rulers in order to achieve their own selfish goals. It's certainly true that the religion, as part of the law, can and is often used to control people (to use a negatively charged word) by rulers, but I think it's important not to underestimate the importance of religion in the development of the culture, and that the origins of the traditions are probably far older than any great rulers are.

Basically all the larger religions has roots in very old traditions that long predates written history and mainly only survived by the word of mouth. Many gods and other important characters in myths could very well originate in true stories of real people that were told so many times that they eventually ascended and became gods. Elders made sure younger ones didn't forget their teachings and eventually the stories become so important that they are worshiped while more and more details are lost to time or changed by the time they were written down. Splitting and merging of groups of people also mixes these stories with each other which may introduce new ideas or reintroduce old ideas in new forms (for example Frigg and Freya in Norse mythology are considered to be the same goddess by some scholars, possibly a result of splitting and re-merging of cultures and traditions).

One great example, I think, is the golden rule in the bible which is also present in pretty much every other major religion. The golden rule is the most fundamental part of these religions, and everything else is just supposed to be descriptions or practical examples of it. Confucius also mentions it, predating all the major religions (and Confucianism is also often considered a religion), and he says that his teachings is just something that was passed down by wise elders as a thing that must not be forgotten since long before his own time.
And the best of all, the golden rule is a way to control people as much as it's a way to protect people and make people collaborate and become stronger. As long as it's equally enforced for everyone, it's hard to see it as a selfish rule coined by some corrupt leader.

Sometimes there are a lot of emphasis on ceremonies while the original purpose might be forgotten, so it's fully understandable that religion is often criticized (and I think extremism and fanaticism is a bad thing, religious nature or not). But if it's not observed with unbiased eyes, and if it's not seen that it's a fundamental and important part of the human society and culture, I think one is just making a very bad mistake that benefits no one. Just as dismissing an idea just because it has clear religious roots is a mistake.


Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Still got to admit this thread went a weird direction. Hope I don't get banned.
Oh right... this is the thread we discuss floating coins in Mario. Welcome to Nesdev!

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Nikku4211
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Re: Super Mario Bros.: Why all the floating money?

Post by Nikku4211 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:19 pm

Pokun wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:30 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
I don't know how being obliterated would be, as oblivion is the lack of experiencing things per definition.
I think it'd probably be the same as me not being obliterated, for the rest of the world. As for what the dead person would experience, it'd be irrelevant because they'd no longer exist at all, so there is no remaining conscience for them to experience anything.
Yes but that's what's hard to imagine. I can't imagine not imagining anything. Consciousness isn't really explained very well anywhere.
Imagine pitch black and absolutely nothing else. If even that's hard to imagine, I don't know what to say.
Pokun wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:30 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
1, 2, 3 and 5. If it's the natural way of the dead you would probably have some way of knowing where to go. Otherwise there are probably signs, or you could ask Yama or St Peter or something.
If there was no way of knowing where to go, you wouldn't know where to find people to ask, or even people you can ask.
Yeah that's one way one may become a lingering spirit. Part of the burial ceremony might be to guide the dead on the right path using bells and lanterns and stuff. Then there are festivals of the dead (like Halloween or similar festivals) that may also serve a similar purpose.
How would we guide the dead to the right path if no living person knows the right path, bells or not? :thonk:
Pokun wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:30 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Pokun wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:20 am
6. You are basically asking why life and death exists. I'm not sure there are any kind of teaching that has a good answer to such fundamental questions of existance, be it scientific or philosophical/religious.
We know a bit about why life and death happen. There are many, many causes of death for many organisms.
...
What I was asking is why the consciences are separated in a world where such things are still operating after all of the body systems, including the ones responsible for controlling their brains, have ceased.
I still only see a question of existence, why things are as they are, what a consciousness is. Fundamentally we know nothing.
Yeah, there's still a lot of unsolved mysteries regarding anything about consciences.
Pokun wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:30 am
Nikku4211 wrote:
Mon Dec 14, 2020 1:19 pm
Real-life religions are dogmatic sets of ideas made to control people, and part of that is trying to explain things we didn't or still don't know.
I think there is a big misunderstanding concerning religion and mythology going on in the world. Religion is often seen as a twisted scheme solely created by some rulers in order to achieve their own selfish goals. It's certainly true that the religion, as part of the law, can and is often used to control people (to use a negatively charged word) by rulers, but I think it's important not to underestimate the importance of religion in the development of the culture, and that the origins of the traditions are probably far older than any great rulers are.

Basically all the larger religions has roots in very old traditions that long predates written history and mainly only survived by the word of mouth. Many gods and other important characters in myths could very well originate in true stories of real people that were told so many times that they eventually ascended and became gods. Elders made sure younger ones didn't forget their teachings and eventually the stories become so important that they are worshiped while more and more details are lost to time or changed by the time they were written down. Splitting and merging of groups of people also mixes these stories with each other which may introduce new ideas or reintroduce old ideas in new forms (for example Frigg and Freya in Norse mythology are considered to be the same goddess by some scholars, possibly a result of splitting and re-merging of cultures and traditions).

One great example, I think, is the golden rule in the bible which is also present in pretty much every other major religion. The golden rule is the most fundamental part of these religions, and everything else is just supposed to be descriptions or practical examples of it. Confucius also mentions it, predating all the major religions (and Confucianism is also often considered a religion), and he says that his teachings is just something that was passed down by wise elders as a thing that must not be forgotten since long before his own time.
And the best of all, the golden rule is a way to control people as much as it's a way to protect people and make people collaborate and become stronger. As long as it's equally enforced for everyone, it's hard to see it as a selfish rule coined by some corrupt leader.

Sometimes there are a lot of emphasis on ceremonies while the original purpose might be forgotten, so it's fully understandable that religion is often criticized (and I think extremism and fanaticism is a bad thing, religious nature or not). But if it's not observed with unbiased eyes, and if it's not seen that it's a fundamental and important part of the human society and culture, I think one is just making a very bad mistake that benefits no one. Just as dismissing an idea just because it has clear religious roots is a mistake.
I think religion and mythology are connected. Mythology can cause religion, and religion can lead to more mythology. I'm not a historian, though, so don't quote me on that. I'm not about to go full MLA here.

I know religions develop cultures, I'm not denying that, but that means we have entire cultures founded on dogmas. When these dogmas start to seem outdated to some extent, the fundamentals of the entire culture itself can be put to question as well.

Religions have roots that go a long time back, but people trying to keep the tradition alive in the modern-day is a double-edged sword. Especially when you have to end up picking and choosing what parts you want to follow and what parts you don't want to follow.

At the end of the day, you could end up just following basic morals that barely have anything to do with religion at all. I think it is more important to realise morals can have logical reasons, because if you only follow rules simply because a book said to, you're going to have some issues adjusting to societal changes.

I wouldn't deny things just because they have a religious origin, I would more likely dismiss them if they have no reason or logic behind them besides the religious origin.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.

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