It is currently Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:11 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 5:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 34
Location: South Dakota
Nintendo has announced that the upcoming Revolution will be able to play, among other things, NES games. I'm assuming that the Revolution will have a software emulator in place of an actual 2A03 and 2C02. Nintendo hasn't released much information yet, but I have a few speculative questions.

- How accurate will Nintendo's emulator be? Will we be able to study its emulated quirks to improve our own emulators?
- Will Nintendo's online access to NES games be free? Will it be relatively easy to put existing roms or homebrew NES games onto a Revolution?
- Will Nintendo develop a custom NES rom format, or will they adopt iNES or UNIF?

For reference, here is Nintendo 's day-before-E3 article.

_________________
- abonetochew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 6:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19084
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Nintendo has no incentive to make an emulator that is 100 percent accurate all the time, as it can just ROM-hack its own games to work around emulation bugs and lack of mappers. Look at acNES, the official NES-on-GBA emulator used for the e-reader, for GC->GBA downloadable extras (Animal Crossing, Nintendo Puzzle Collection, Metroid Prime, etc), and for the Famicom Mini/Classic NES titles, and compare it to PocketNES.

The copy prevention on the Revolution console will likely be stronger than that on the GameCube console. We might not even get a chance to study the binary.

Only mappers used in first-party titles are likely to be supported, and current emulators handle S*ROM, U*ROM, C*ROM, T*ROM, P*ROM well. If Nintendo didn't make any E*ROM titles, then the emulator likely will not support MMC5, and it definitely won't support the HK pirate mappers.

(If you're striving for accuracy über alles, then here's another strategy: Now that the mask work exclusive rights in the NES chips have expired after ten years, it'd probably be useful to have somebody go to Washington, D.C., and make copies of the 2A03, 2C02, and CIC mask images.)

NES games will probably be available by rental only.

If Nintendo were to adopt iNES, UNIF, or some other relatively simple format, people could just pirate ROMs in iNES or UNIF format and convert them into something readable by Revolution; bad idea. Expect Nintendo's ROMs to be in some sort of custom signed and encrypted format.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2005 8:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:07 pm
Posts: 34
Location: South Dakota
That's what I was afraid of. Looks like I'll have to pay for my games again if I want them all in one box ... at least until Revolution-Linux is created ...

_________________
- abonetochew


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 1:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:47 am
Posts: 48
maybe it'll work like certain java emulators, where you play online from a list of games, and don't actually download them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 8:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:31 am
Posts: 418
So basically my inexpensive Xbox, with a soft-mod and FCE UltraX (NES), xSNES9x (SNES), XBoyAdvance (GBA), and Surreal64 (N64) already does a better job of what the Revolution will do. Thats pretty sad. I guess this is just like PocketNES. Nintendo will respond with their own offering that will be too little, too late.

I like the look of the GBM though. GBA games remind me of NES and SNES games.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:17 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:04 am
Posts: 3470
Location: Indianapolis
Yeah, I figure it sounds too good to be true. Very interesting though. Nintendo would be competing against their own products (in used game stores). If someone has an NES/SNES/N64 already, they might as well pay the usual $5 or less for the original cart (a few games excepted). So I'm guessing it would be more targetted towards people who don't have or don't want to have the older hardware, or just want a portable version. (edit: portable? oops, I was confusing it with the GB micro)

I'm not too happy with the idea of having to buy the same game twice, heheh. Plus going to emulation (assuming it's not incredibly good emulation) is like downgrading from CDs to tapes, heh.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:47 am
Posts: 48
Jagasian wrote:
So basically my inexpensive Xbox, with a soft-mod and FCE UltraX (NES), xSNES9x (SNES), XBoyAdvance (GBA), and Surreal64 (N64) already does a better job of what the Revolution will do. Thats pretty sad. I guess this is just like PocketNES. Nintendo will respond with their own offering that will be too little, too late.

I like the look of the GBM though. GBA games remind me of NES and SNES games.

a big difference is that nintendo's one is legal

and the revolution has 512mbyte flash ram on it and is expandable, so i'd guess you probably do store them on the system, and given the system is the size of 3 dvd cases stacked, its considerable more movable and takes less space up than sony's and microsoft's offerings


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 4:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:33 am
Posts: 3715
Location: Central Texas, USA
Some people don't want a bunch of consoles laying around. It's one reason I don't play as much anymore; I don't want a mess of more than one hooked up, but that limits me to a subset of games (not that any new-fangled machine will ever replace the original console, not on my turf).

And I doubt Nintendo minds competing with sellers of used games. I imagine if they (and other media companies) had their way it'd be illegal to sell used games, movies, and music.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19084
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
blargg wrote:
I imagine if they (and other media companies) had their way it'd be illegal to sell used games, movies, and music.

In Japan, exhaustion of exclusive distribution rights at the first sale does not apply to audiovisual works. This means that it is illegal to sell used copies of movies and video games without the copyright owner's permission, and any used game stores, if they do exist, have to operate under license.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 7:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:31 am
Posts: 418
RoboNes wrote:
Jagasian wrote:
So basically my inexpensive Xbox, with a soft-mod and FCE UltraX (NES), xSNES9x (SNES), XBoyAdvance (GBA), and Surreal64 (N64) already does a better job of what the Revolution will do. Thats pretty sad. I guess this is just like PocketNES. Nintendo will respond with their own offering that will be too little, too late.

I like the look of the GBM though. GBA games remind me of NES and SNES games.

a big difference is that nintendo's one is legal

and the revolution has 512mbyte flash ram on it and is expandable, so i'd guess you probably do store them on the system, and given the system is the size of 3 dvd cases stacked, its considerable more movable and takes less space up than sony's and microsoft's offerings


Non-nintendo made emulators are perfectly legal, and ROMs of games that you own the actual cart for are legal too. This sounds like too little too late from Nintendo, as my crappy old cheap Xbox has been doing this software emulation of old Nintendo consoles for years.

But who needs the Revolution, when we have good N64, SNES, and Gameboy copiers and flash carts, and the upcoming FPGA NES:
http://www.nesworld.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya ... 1116771115
... Nintendo's emulation won't be as good as the real thing, which is obtainable via a copier or flash cart, or the circuit-level emulation found in the FPGA NES. So just buy an A/V switch and a shelf for all of your consoles.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 10:53 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19084
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Jagasian wrote:
Non-nintendo made emulators are perfectly legal, and ROMs of games that you own the actual cart for are legal too.

Technically, the ROMs are legal only if you dump the cart yourself; the exemption to copyright in 17 USC 117 does not extend to distribution in this case. And unlike GBA dumping tools such as the Flash2Advance linker, NES dumping tools are extremely hard to come by. Even the FPGA Famiclone still can't dump your own cartridges.

Quote:
But who needs the Revolution, when we have good N64, SNES, and Gameboy copiers and flash carts, and the upcoming FPGA NES:
http://www.nesworld.com/cgi-bin/yabb/Ya ... 1116771115

You forgot the "free reg. req.".

Quote:
... Nintendo's emulation won't be as good as the real thing, which is obtainable via a copier or flash cart

Which are scarce, unless you consider an iNES ROM running on PocketNES on F2A or EFA to be "running on a flash cart".

Quote:
or the circuit-level emulation found in the FPGA NES.

If homebrew developers start releasing ROMs tested only on Nintendulator, PocketNES, and Kevin Horton's FPGA Famiclone, will people like Bananmos still pipe up and threaten assault and battery against anybody who doesn't test in an actual Nintendo Brand Blinking Toaster?

And will there be a "lite" version with more limited mapper support (e.g. only the USA mappers) available for less than $300?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 11:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 10:59 pm
Posts: 1389
tepples wrote:
And will there be a "lite" version with more limited mapper support (e.g. only the USA mappers) available for less than $300?


If you're referring to the Kevtendo, there would be no point - the costs are in the hardware itself and have very little to do with the software/firmware. If kev does produce and sell these, I don't know whether or not he'll charge extra for each game system supported.

_________________
Quietust, QMT Productions
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 12:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:31 am
Posts: 418
Personally, I am only after perfect circuit-level emulation of the NES/Famicom. The other consoles are already covered by copiers and flash carts.

kev could make some good money by making a JAMMA converter for his board, and then make high-quality circuit-level emulations of some of the classic arcade games. Collectors would appreciate something exactly like the real thing (i.e. not sorta-like-it ala MAME), which they drop-in an arcade cabinet. Arcade collectors are more willing to pay a premium for their hardware. Again, I am not talking about casual Mame users who built a craptastic Mame cabinet, but instead the types who have played, say Pacman, everyday since it was released. These types don't care for slow booting fan cooled Mame arcade machines, which support thousands of games with buggy inaccurate emulation. They want something that can't be discerned from an official Pacman PCB, once it is installed inside the cabinet.

Emulation was supposed to save the classics, but typically it is so poorly implemented that it only obscures what the classics were like. Kind of like crappy colorizations of classic black-n-white movies. I mean, there are still people who use Nesticle, for christsakes!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 1:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:33 am
Posts: 3715
Location: Central Texas, USA
Quote:
I mean, there are still people who use Nesticle, for christsakes!


Come on, Nesticle is a great emulator! If you don't believe me, I can cite you several websites as proof.

</sarcasm>


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:13 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: .ma.us
What? Nesticle IS still awesome, no sarcasm, in what other emulator can I alter tiles and crap during play? It's got lots of cool features nobody else has bothered to implement.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group