All's Well That Ends Well...

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mikejmoffitt
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Post by mikejmoffitt » Tue Jun 05, 2012 10:07 am

This is all an unfortunate read for many I'm sure - I recall reading through nesdev for most of my middle school times years ago, and having only recently rediscovered it to find it's closing is disapointing!

I have a server lying around on a fairly beefy stable enterprise-level connection; would it be helpful at all to mirror anything off of that or use it for some form of hosting?

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Memblers
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Post by Memblers » Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:36 pm

pichichi010: I appreciate the offer, but we should be set (I believe the server we'll move to is running a Xeon.. just total overkill, I'm sure).

mikejmoffitt: No worries man, Parodius is closing but NESdev isn't. Just means the address will be nesdev.com rather than the classic nesdev.com.

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mikejmoffitt
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Post by mikejmoffitt » Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:16 pm

Memblers wrote:pichichi010: I appreciate the offer, but we should be set (I believe the server we'll move to is running a Xeon.. just total overkill, I'm sure).

mikejmoffitt: No worries man, Parodius is closing but NESdev isn't. Just means the address will be nesdev.com rather than the classic nesdev.com.
Alright, good to hear. I have access to a boatload of 1U dual xeon servers if they may be of any use.

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miker00lz
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Post by miker00lz » Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:48 am

ouch, sad news. i haven't read this entire thread, but i will gladly offer to host the whole thing, including forum, on my personal server for free. nesdev has been immeasurably valuable to me, so this would just be my way of giving back. i'm sure something is probably already figured out by now, but if not my offer stands.

i can't provide a regular domain name on my own such as nesdev.com, but if a domain name is already registered somewhere else you would just have to point the domain to my server's IP, and i can configure a virtual host for it. i could also provide a free subdomain under rubbermallet.org, which i own. so, something like nesdev.rubbermallet.org

my server's line has an upstream of about 500 KB/s, which while not earth-shatteringly fast, should be overkill for everything nesdev has. the connection stability is rock-solid, and the server box is a legit actual server, designed for rack-mounting and all. (its a dual-CPU proliant, and it's been extremely reliable for me for years)

it's already set up with PHP, MySQL, etc... so it'd be basically ready-to-go. would just need to set up the virtual host, and create an FTP login for the admin.

smkd
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Post by smkd » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:27 am

Memblers wrote:pichichi010: I appreciate the offer, but we should be set (I believe the server we'll move to is running a Xeon.. just total overkill, I'm sure).
It's cool seeing so many willing to offer help with hosting. This site's definitely sticking around for the long term :)

Big thanks to koitsu and our eventual new host.

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thefox
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Post by thefox » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:47 am

It has been 3 months since the announcement, when are we going to move?
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: fo.aspekt.fi

krzysiobal
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Post by krzysiobal » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:12 pm

I completely don't understand what this topic is about. Guys wondering how to fetch the wiki's, bbs and main site.

If the webmaster is know what is going on, he would move the whole bbs into new server - just moving the database + current version of phpb.

The same goes for wiki - all the pages are stored, so what's the matter `how to move it?`

Also, if the owner of parodius wasn't such a m........r, he would sold the hosting services for someone's else who would take care about that.
The only reasons that come into my mind is
a) not enough money
b) not enough time

If the servers are too expensive to maintain, he could encourage the visitors to give a gifts or put banners.

Also - don't worry dudes and do not make backups with wgets, teleport, webstripper or some other tools. There are such fantastic sites like webarchive, where you can see how the site looked in the past - long long after parodius is down, you will be able to view all its sites :)

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clueless
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Post by clueless » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:22 pm

Words escape me. You obviously have no clue what is going on with Parodius, or how excellent our hosting provider has been.

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koitsu
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Post by koitsu » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:06 pm

clueless wrote:Words escape me. You obviously have no clue what is going on ...
This.

I get the impression his opinion is the result of 1) not reading the initial post + the explanation of what's going on (main parodius.com news page), 2) language barrier, 3) some kind of general annoyance rather than being calm and asking questions (if there are any).

Furthermore, I don't sell shit to anyone: period. "Selling" Parodius to some company would be the most moral-violating, horrible thing I could do to the underlying folks who we've hosted for years. That is just so wrong on so many levels that I cannot even fathom doing so. It would also mean I'd be making money off of selling off something I did for free + as a hobby, which is also wrong (to me, morally).

tepples
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Post by tepples » Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:58 pm

I just wonder why the redirect will end so early (end of October). It'll break inbound links from the rest of the web.

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koitsu
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Post by koitsu » Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:52 pm

The reason is pretty simple: because maintaining the redirects still requires me to retain some degree of responsibility / administrative work. It's the exact same for the Email redirections. I'm absolutely 100% certain someone we've hosted will complain that some redirect "doesn't work the way they want", or "wants one thing directed one place, and another somewhere else" -- and the same with Email.

Email redirections will still affect people as a result of my choice of DNSBLs, which historically has impacted users many times over (and I've grown very tired of having to juggle anti-spam methodologies/etc. to keep a few people happy while upsetting others). I cannot tersely explain this situation. The thing I've learned is that I never should have begun offering hosted Email services. It's now become a serious hindrance.

In fact, I'm already in a fairly heated discussion with one of our users about the Email redirections; apparently "until October" isn't long enough for him. I told him "I'm willing to extend this for you until December", which also apparently isn't long enough for him. Apparently he wants the redirection for 2-3 years -- no I'm not kidding. I told him December is the cut-off point for him period, and I'm not willing to extend it any further. He's quite pissed off ("I have hundreds of places I have to change my Email address"), and as much as I can understand that, that really isn't my problem. I can't make everyone happy.

I suppose all of this would make more sense if I finished doing my write-up on why the doors are closing in the first place.

The other problem with redirections is that they allow people to be lazy. There's no incentive for someone to actually get up off their butt and fix links or update their Email addresses if things just continue working indefinitely. And if that's the case, then why even bother closing our doors at all? There has to be a point where a person says "enough is enough". Since I'm the one who has to deal with it all, that point is "the sooner the better".

tepples
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Thus saith Sir Tim

Post by tepples » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:18 pm

koitsu wrote:The other problem with redirections is that they allow people to be lazy.
Except Sir Tim Berners-Lee appears to think laziness is a good thing for the web. I wonder how many different operators of other web sites one would have to contact to get inbound links corrected. Who has access to this domain's Referer data?

The moral: Always host on your own domain, not someone else's subdomain. My 20/20 hindsight tells me the redirect from nesdev.com to nesdev.com should have gone the other way.

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koitsu
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Post by koitsu » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:32 pm

You can't micro-manage the web, Tepples. Thus, links pointing to old URLs / sites / domains / whatever = too bad. That's just the way it works. I say this with respect, not condescension: getting OCD over it isn't worth it. Besides, if a link doesn't work, people usually resort to a search engine to try and find what they're looking for. I know if someone mailed me about a link I had on my home page which pointed to something outdated I'd actually be a little creeped out. And of course I've yet to encounter anyone who has talked to me about my very old, original domain name crystalis.com (I think Neill Corlett may be the only one old enough to remember that).

When the site is moved, I can provide Memblers (or whomever else as part of the "staff") full webalizer data which ranges from August 2011 to present (compiled daily, but webalizer stats are organised monthly). I believe historic referer data is available through that.

We don't keep more than 14 days of Apache access and error logs -- we simply host too many sites to retain more than that.

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Banshaku
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Post by Banshaku » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:32 pm

@Koitsu:

I cannot believe how people can complain when they "freeloaded" that service until now... People should be ashamed of that, I don't know what to say.

The rules have been decided, the dices have rolled, now everyone keep your mouth shut and accept that we have to move forward ;) It just a damn fan website: we can figure out what doesn't work later and nobody will die from that.

The most important part is that content of the site is still intact, the rest is just icing.

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koitsu
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Post by koitsu » Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:27 pm

@Banshaku:
I cannot believe how people can complain when they "freeloaded" that service until now... People should be ashamed of that, I don't know what to say.
Welcome to one of the many (and I do stress the word *many*) reasons why I'm closing things down. I don't have a problem with people expecting good service or reliability (that's fine -- I too expect such, free or commercial, because it's really not that hard to accomplish), but given that everything is a hobby it does amaze me a bit that some people had this strange assumption that I would just keep doing this thing indefinitely until the day I die. Which makes me wonder as well -- what would people have done if, say, one day I got hit by a bus? *shakes head* It amazes me sometimes that people don't take responsibility for their own stuff and instead would rather just pawn it off onto someone else.

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