More NSF Requests

Discuss NSF files, FamiTracker, MML tools, or anything else related to NES music.

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MrNorbert1994
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by MrNorbert1994 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:43 am

VT03 stuff.
Attachments
Thunder Man (SFX).nsf
(4.54 KiB) Downloaded 80 times
Maze Puzzle (OneBus) (Nintendulator NRS Only).nsf
(1.56 KiB) Downloaded 76 times
Jig Chick (SFX).nsf
(5.06 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
Curly Monkey (SFX).nsf
(7.05 KiB) Downloaded 84 times
Curly Monkey 2 (SFX).nsf
(7.07 KiB) Downloaded 78 times

lancuster
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by lancuster » Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:49 am

MrNorbert1994 wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 2:43 am
VT03 stuff.
Big thanks! :D
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MrNorbert1994
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by MrNorbert1994 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 4:10 am

New FDS rip.
Attachments
The Golf - Bishoujo Classic (SFX).nsf
(6.37 KiB) Downloaded 69 times

Pokun
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Pokun » Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:01 am

Bregalad wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 2:21 am
there's another unused (*) song that was added for Dragon Warrior III, fascinating !

Also, am I correct in thinking that both DQ3 and DW3 have both the overture and title screen music, but neither is used in neither game ? It seems only used in the SNES and GBC remakes, the NES DQ3/DW3 being the only game in the series not using this music piece (while still having it in ROM).

(*) Unless it's actually used anywhere ? I only played through from start to finish with the GBC version.
I read somewhere that the developers had to cut a lot of content to get everything to fit in the ROM, and that's the reason why the DQ3 title screen has no graphic or sound (it literary just says Dragon Quest III with a plain font on black background), and the adventure log screen is also silent. Kind of disappointing since in DQ2 they went all out with Love Song Sagashite / Only Lonly Boy, hiring idol Anna Makino (did you know she is an NPC in DQ2? She is the "welcome NPC" in Perupoi/Wellgarth. She never says her name in DW2 but she still "sings" Love Song Sagashite when talking to her).

Anyway since they had to cut content in DQ3 I doubt the overture is there but unused, otherwise they could just have used it for the poor title screen. In DW3 things are different since they probably had to use a larger ROM for the English text to fit anyway, so they could even add the intro with Ortega fighting the dragon.

BTW which possibly unused song added to DW3 are you talking about? It was a very long time ago I played the English version.

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Karmic
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Karmic » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:21 pm

Castlevania 3 with the samples.
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Castlevania III - Dracula's Curse.nsf
(56.14 KiB) Downloaded 75 times
Visit this dropbox folder to download all of my music rips.

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Bregalad
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Bregalad » Sat Mar 28, 2020 12:32 pm

Pokun wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:01 am
I read somewhere that the developers had to cut a lot of content to get everything to fit in the ROM, and that's the reason why the DQ3 title screen has no graphic or sound (it literary just says Dragon Quest III with a plain font on black background), and the adventure log screen is also silent.[...]

Anyway since they had to cut content in DQ3 I doubt the overture is there but unused, otherwise they could just have used it for the poor title screen.
Never understimate incompetence ! They had a overture music there standing unused, they could have used that space to at least have a silent but beautiful title screen (that was the norm in 1989 after all). Also the ouverture is not the same duty cycle as in DW2, so there's an technically unused version in the series.

By the way, Mega Man 3 is also another game where they were out of cartridge space for the intro/title screen where it's minimalistic compared to it's predecessor. But there's still music and a real title screen.
Kind of disappointing since in DQ2 they went all out with Love Song Sagashite / Only Lonly Boy, hiring idol Anna Makino (did you know she is an NPC in DQ2?
What are you talking about ? DQ2 has a perfectly normal title screen, with the normal DQ overture.
the adventure log screen is also silent.
Not technically silent, there's a glitchy low triangle note playing. This was the first "adventure log" in the series so it wasn't shoking back then I suppose.
BTW which possibly unused song added to DW3 are you talking about? It was a very long time ago I played the English version.
Song 41 from the NSF above ripped by MrNorbert1994. It's right after the DW3-exclusive songs, and is a strange remix of the battle theme.

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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Pokun » Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:21 pm

Never understimate incompetence ! They had a overture music there standing unused, they could have used that space to at least have a silent but beautiful title screen (that was the norm in 1989 after all). Also the ouverture is not the same duty cycle as in DW2, so there's an technically unused version in the series.

By the way, Mega Man 3 is also another game where they were out of cartridge space for the intro/title screen where it's minimalistic compared to it's predecessor. But there's still music and a real title screen.
Well it was a huge project with lots of people working on a highly anticipated game, probably with tight deadlines. It's not unthinkable that it slipped their mind to enable the overture before the deadline if it indeed was in the ROM (poor guy was probably yelled at by his boss after that).
I could only find a short version of the overture in MrNorbert1994's above rip though (song 3). It's only the initial fanfare part so I understand why that one wasn't used as is.

Yeah cutting something as important as the title screen is controversial. That's one reason I believe things didn't really go according to plans. They probably had no time to change things and had no choice but to cut something even if it was as important.

What are you talking about ? DQ2 has a perfectly normal title screen, with the normal DQ overture.
Love Song Sagashite / Only Lonely Boy isn't the overture, it's the song played on the character creation and password entry screen in DQ2 (and thus the adventure log screen in DW2). It's also set as the BGM after talking to Anna the songstress in Perupoi. It was a song used to promote the game. In DQ3 however there is no song at all. But yeah as you say this was the first adventure log screen in the series.

Song 41 from the NSF above ripped by MrNorbert1994. It's right after the DW3-exclusive songs, and is a strange remix of the battle theme.
Ah you mean 42, nice discovery! I don't recognize that one from the game.

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Bregalad
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Bregalad » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:55 am

Pokun wrote:
Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:21 pm
Well it was a huge project with lots of people working on a highly anticipated game, probably with tight deadlines. It's not unthinkable that it slipped their mind to enable the overture before the deadline if it indeed was in the ROM (poor guy was probably yelled at by his boss after that).
Exactly, add to this Japanese culture of wokring until 2AM and not daring criticizing your boss' decisions no matter how wrong they are, and you get the disastrous results.

Also, the only really massive thing is the overworld. The dialogue isn't that large and most of the game will be spent in pointless and boring battles, it's DQ after all. Magic spells don't even have any graphical animation, etc... Like all DQ games it's extremely minimalistic in how it's finished and polished compared to other games of the time.
I could only find a short version of the overture in MrNorbert1994's above rip though (song 3). It's only the initial fanfare part so I understand why that one wasn't used as is.
He ripped Dragon Warrior 3. Dragon Quest 3 has both parts of the overture, both unused, in the ROM, the intro is song $02 and the rest is song $1F. You can hear them in-game using FCEUX, and setting a braekpoint at adress $85C1, which is the routine which will start new music or sound effects. When it breaks, replace whathever value is in the accumulator by either $02 or $1F and bam, you can hear the overture in-game.
Ah you mean 42, nice discovery!
This is probably an issue of whether we start counting at #1 or at #0. My nsf player starts counting at #0.
Last edited by Bregalad on Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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MrNorbert1994
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by MrNorbert1994 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:19 am

"My nsf player starts counting at #0."

Huh... which NSF player is this?
To my knowledge all NSF players start counting from 1.

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Bregalad
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Bregalad » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:45 am

MrNorbert1994 wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:19 am
"My nsf player starts counting at #0."

Huh... which NSF player is this?
To my knowledge all NSF players start counting from 1.
I use VirtuaNES which has an amazing visualisation.

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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Pokun » Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:46 am

Ah yeah I use Mesen as my default NSF player when double clicking an NSF file and it indeed counts tracks from 1. Adding breakpoints in FCEUX doesn't work for me (it never breaks), but I found the overture at track 32 (Mesen numbering) in my DQ3 NSF, it's indeed there despite not being used in either version. I guess someone at Enix/Chunsoft messed up after all.

It's a well known fact that every new DQ game was a huge project that forced the whole company to work together, and considering DQ3 being the most anticipated game and the largest they had made so far, it's not that strange if a lot of things went wrong with it.
I think I read that about cut content on Japanese Wikipedia. There it indeed says that (roughly translated) "due to the world ending up so large, a number of towns, dungeons and monsters had to be cut. In addition there is no opening and the title screen is without graphic and sound." I interpret that last part as a consequence of the lack of ROM space, but a lack of time is maybe a more plausible explanation.


most of the game will be spent in pointless and boring battles, it's DQ after all. Magic spells don't even have a graphical animation, etc... Like all DQ games it's extremely minimalistic in how it's finished and polished compared to other games of the time.
I don't agree with that one bit. DQ games are no more grindy than any other RPG on the system, and I'd say they are more polished than most other RPGs despite predating them. The DQ games was pioneers in the genre, they where not the first Japanese RPGs but they where definitely the first mainstream ones and the definer of the whole "JRPG" genre. DQ1 is indeed very simplistic in many ways (especially the Japanese version), but already DQ2 (which predates FF1 by a few months) is about on par with many later RPGs on the system. FF1 uses backup RAM, character creation with classes and tries to be closer to paper-and-pen RPGs than DQ was, but it's also very buggy and has much slower battles than any DQ game. FF is also very simplistic and doesn't have much in the animation department. Battles in DQ are mostly text-based (since they are derived from text-based adventures and RPGs) which I think allows for a more interesting battle system where the situation is entirely described in text. Both DQ and Mother games does this in a fantastic and humoristic way.

I think all DQ games are highly polished in all kinds of little details (even DQ1) that other games released later don't bother with. Graphically, dialogue-wise, characters and small details like paralysis causing the sprite animation to stop or using the pepper item causes all party members to sneeze (again humorously described in text), these are all details that makes the series stand out and is what I really like about the series.

Finally DQ4 is one of the most advanced and probably the best RPG on the system IMHO. They went to really great lengths in polishing every nook and corner of that game.

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Bregalad
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Bregalad » Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:36 am

Well, I won't deny that DQ series was founding the JRPG genre. But I think the NES/FC version aged very badly. Sure, most RPGs of the time were incredibly grindy, but DQ were the worst offenders. Doing noninteresting battles for 3 hours to afford buying a new sword is NOT fun. DQ4 is the last Famicom/NES game to have sprites without outlines when other companies abandonned this graphic style in 1987 at latest, it looks completely lame by 1990 standards. Overworld graphics are also horrible a "hiding the grid". There's no battle backgrounds whatsoever, and the only animation is monster blinking when they're hit by either physical or magical damage. No animations for magic, and you don't see your party in battle.

Basically the series was stuck in 1986 and only adding larger worlds, and more ennemies. While all other games series of the time actually evolved with new graphics, new concepts, etc... Even FF1 has better graphics than DQ4, with character outlines and detailed battle animation with visible weapons and spells (even though they're repetitive). The DW ports made them interesting with amazing intros, but that only makes the rest of the game further disappointing so much they're lacking in substance. Sure overworld maps are huge, but that alone doesn't make a game fun.

Sure having slugs licking your party members or having monsters confusing you by (unanimated) dancing is a fun joke but it's only fun once. Many NES DQ games are fun for the first 3 hours but get boring so I play the remakes instead - that's actually the only games where I prefer the remakes over the NES original !

In the end what makes most JRPGs of that era poorly aged is that magic/spells/techs are underpowered and expensive to use, and new equipment way too expensive. What makes a JRPG battle interesting is if you can try different weapons, spells and techniques. Always doing the same boring physical attack is boring, and even moreso if it doesn't matter what your weapon is. By 1990 most JRPGs developpers got this and evolved in a positive way... except Chunsoft who was stuck in 1986.

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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by lancuster » Sun Mar 29, 2020 7:40 am

Who can make NSF rip from VT03 game "Commando"?
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by Pokun » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:30 am

Bregalad wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:36 am
Well, I won't deny that DQ series was founding the JRPG genre.
......
Discussion continued here.

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MrNorbert1994
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Re: More NSF Requests

Post by MrNorbert1994 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:38 pm

Another VT03
Attachments
Commando (VT03) (SFX).nsf
(7.45 KiB) Downloaded 76 times

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