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Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip
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Author:  rainwarrior [ Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

tadashibashi wrote:
what does 'high' and 'low' mean?

Connecting them to the 5V power source, or 0V ground reference.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

lidnariq wrote:
rainwarrior wrote:
...the mix between the squares channel and the tri/noise/dpcm channel [varies between machines]...

But that should only be a decibel or so...

"Should", but I think the sampling I measured a while back was a bit worse than that. I seem to recall measured varation more like up to ~25%? I can't find the spreadsheets I made, but I was planning to re-test and re-measure this stuff next time I do a pass at NSFPlay anyway, so I'll report back whenever that happens.

Author:  lidnariq [ Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

"tie" means connect. (Usually more permanently)



Measured variation of 25% (if relative to each other) is still "only" 2dB. And the 100Ω pulldowns on the audio pins make it impossible to accurately measure the two mixing resistors anyway; I basically always end up measuring (12kΩ in parallel with 20kΩ) = 7.5kΩ

Author:  tadashibashi [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

lidnariq wrote:
Well, ok, as a final guess, I'd hope something like the following is true of the YMZ294 socket:
pin 1 = /WR = connected to ground or to R/W (cartridge pin 14)
pin 2 = /CS = connected to /ROMSEL
pin 3 = A0 = hopefully connected to CPU A13 (cartridge pin 34)
pin 4 = Vdd
pin 5 = SoundOut - probably not connected at all
pin 6 = Gnd
pin 7 = φM = connected to M2 (cartridge pin 32)
pin 8 = 4/6 = pulled to ground through a resistor somewhere
pin 9 = /IC = pulled high through a resistor, unless there's explicit reset circuitry somewhere

IF all the above are true, then I'm not clear why just plugging Gimmick! in isn't working.


Hmm, I did everything here and it reproduced what it would sound like in a normal cartridge slot, meaning I was able to get the loud noise from Gimmick's noise generator.. I wonder if TNS-HFX4 just doesn't support Gimmick! at all.
(Except I don't know if I understand what pins 8 and 9 are supposed to go)

Author:  lidnariq [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

tadashibashi wrote:
I was able to get the loud noise from Gimmick's noise generator...
Would you try explaining that again? I'm not certain I understand.

Author:  tadashibashi [ Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

Gimmick, when placed in one of the HFX4 expansion cartridge slots produces either:
-Nothing
-intervallic popping (more rare)
-constant noise from the 5B's random noise generator
-crescendoing noise from the 5B's random noise generator that when it reaches max volume stops and is silent until Famicom is turned off and back on and the crescendoing noise happens again.

These sounds happen regardless even before an NSF has been played.

When I followed the connections you posted from Gimmick to the YMZ294 port, it produced the crescendoing noise. So I believe it worked in that sense but it is not able to produce square waves, let alone follow instructions from NSF's.

Author:  ImATrackMan [ Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

Quick question: does the 5B require an IRQ signal? When I tried finding the pinout of the HFX4's 40-pin connector a couple of weeks ago to eventually try something out (Pay no attention to the (EXP) markers) I saw pin 25 connected to the IRQ line. Pin 25 is labelled as "No Connection" because it's physically missing a pin on the HFE1, but looking at it on both ends (the HFE1 riser card and the HFX itself) it's got traces running to FC pin 15 on every cart slot (/IRQ). Would connecting it fix some or all 5B issues?

In other news, I figured out how to get the TNS to get sound output via RF/RCA. Connect pin 28 to the headphone jack on the HFX, and on the HFE1, connect pin 28 to the 4th (unpopulated) jumper pin. BONUS: You can add that 4th jumper pin, and use the HFE1 as a fully functional FC cart slot by connecting the 3rd and 4th header pins.

Code:
       Riser card IDE connector
   (Looking into connector from top)
                -----
         M2 -- |01 02| -- GND
    CPU A12 -- |03 04| -- CPU A11
    CPU A13 -- |05 06| -- CPU A10
    CPU A14 -- |07 08| -- CPU A9
     CPU A7 -- |09 10| -- CPU A8
     CPU A5 -- |11 12| -- CPU A6
     CPU A3 -- |13 14| -- CPU A4
     CPU A1 -- |15 16| -- CPU A2
     CPU A0 -- |17 18| -- /ROMSEL (A15 + /M2)
         FG -- |19 20| -- FG
 2A03 (EXP) -- |21 22| -- FG
    CPU R/W -- |23 24| -- FG
          (NC) |25 26| -- FG
        +5V -- |27 28| (NC)
        +5V -- |29 30| -- FG
(EXP) CPU D7 - |31 32| -- CPU D6 (EXP)
(EXP) CPU D5 - |33 34| -- FG
(EXP) CPU D4 - |35 36| -- CPU D3 (EXP)
(EXP) CPU D2 - |37 38| -- CPU D1 (EXP)
(EXP) CPU D0 - |39 40| -- FG
                -----

Author:  lidnariq [ Sun Jun 21, 2015 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

ImATrackMan wrote:
Quick question: does the 5B require an IRQ signal?
Doubtful: the /IRQ signal is an output from the mapper, and the YMZ294 doesn't have one at all.

Author:  tadashibashi [ Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

I just discovered that the Gimmick! cart plays that same noise (when in an HFX4 cartridge slot) when the cartridge is not inserted correctly in my AV Famicom upon turning it on. Maybe it needs some kind of correct data input keeps this noise from happening?

Author:  lidnariq [ Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

That sound is the "sound generation control is powering on with random values" ... all it indicates is that nothing's ever being written to it.

Author:  tadashibashi [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

lidnariq wrote:
That sound is the "sound generation control is powering on with random values" ... all it indicates is that nothing's ever being written to it.


I see that makes a lot of sense, thanks!

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but I was thinking for a solution, could it possibly work to connect the Gimmick cart to an HFX4 cartridge slot, and then send YMZ's A0 to Gimmick's CPU A14?

Author:  lidnariq [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

tadashibashi wrote:
could it possibly work to connect the Gimmick cart to an HFX4 cartridge slot, and then send YMZ's A0 to Gimmick's CPU A14?
CPU A13; Gimmick's sound registers are at $C000 and $E000.

That said, isn't that what you did? Or am I confused? (I have to admit, if it IS what you did, I'm completely bewildered why it's not working)

Author:  rainwarrior [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

The problem may be bus conflicts from the 5B cartridge preventing the TNS-HFC software from executing properly, rather than any kind of problem getting the audio control signals to the 5B cartridge.

Author:  lidnariq [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

Oh, sure. Try tying the cart R/W input (pin 14) to ground, instead of to R/W. (Absolute worst it'll produce garbage writes to the sound registers instead, but that'll at least sorta work)

Author:  tadashibashi [ Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hardware Recordings with S5B Chip

Okay wait, I'm a little confused, so I was connecting the YMZ slot directly to the Gimmick cart, but you intended directions for the Gimmick cart to go into the HFX4 catridge slot (w/ ymz connected to corresponding Gimmick pins)?

I know this is a noob question but what's an example of tying pin 14 to ground? I'm not sure what ground is, other than absorbing current.

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