It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:01 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 542
Location: United States
I always liked how NGII's Musicruise would fade out music when you press "A." But it looks like it doesn't just "fade out" the channels. Is it also slowing down the tempo? :?

What's the exact rate that the volume drops?

I'd like to incorporate this type of fade out in some of my NSFs. :mrgreen:

_________________
Ruling the World One Bean™ at a Time...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:08 am 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
How would a fade be useful in an NSF? NSF doesn't have track lengths or other metadata, and NSF 2 extensions ended up stalling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5826
Location: Canada
NSFe has a fade specification, but I don't think JQM was asking about it as a feature of NSF, just how to accomplish it musically?

I didn't know NG2 has a sound test like that. Really bizarre that there are 3 versions of it? The musicruise looks like it fades the channels at different rates. The triangle not at all (just cuts off at some point), the noise much more slowly than the rest, DPCM immediately. I don't hear any change in tempo.

What do you need "exact rate" for? (And if you need that, why can't you determine it yourself?)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:59 am 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
rainwarrior wrote:
NSFe has a fade specification, but I don't think JQM was asking about it as a feature of NSF, just how to accomplish it musically?

I assumed that accomplishing a fade musically was intended as a means to mark the end of a piece. In this application of a fade, there needs to be some means to let the player know that the piece has ended and that if the track continues to play, all channels will remain silent until the emulated machine loses power. I mentioned NSF 2 as such a means.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5826
Location: Canada
??? If you need to know when to stop, that's what a track length is for. (Or if emulated there are lots of alternatives.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:45 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
rainwarrior wrote:
If you need to know when to stop, that's what a track length is for.

tepples wrote:
NSF doesn't have track lengths


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5826
Location: Canada
What did you possibly hope to accomplish by quoting this?

Honestly I feel insulted.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:18 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
I did not mean to insult you, just to point out a previous thing that you might have forgotten when writing a particular reply. I've noticed a habit on some forums of people reading only the latest post and replying only to that post while forgetting a detail that was mentioned earlier.

To my previous point: I'm just curious as to what such a fade would be used for in an NSF as opposed to in a game. A game would add a fade when preparing to stop and transition to a different track. A composition in a format with track lengths would add a fade at the start of the third time through the loop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 542
Location: United States
I'm making an album of NSFs... and for the NSFs that don't have a definite end, I'd rather fade them out using the hardware's limitations than fading them out in a sound editor.

I already started doing this, fading out each channel differently in a way that sounds right. The Triangle I would slowly decrease the note length until it reaches '0' .

But I like the way NGII does it! I want to replicate that.

_________________
Ruling the World One Bean™ at a Time...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:09 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Jedi QuestMaster wrote:
I'm making an album of NSFs... and for the NSFs that don't have a definite end, I'd rather fade them out using the hardware's limitations than fading them out in a sound editor.

Thanks. That clears things up.

Quote:
I already started doing this, fading out each channel differently in a way that sounds right. The Triangle I would slowly decrease the note length until it reaches '0' .

I seem to remember Hatris doing this sort of fade.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5826
Location: Canada
Seeing the Ninja Gaiden Musicruise actually makes me want to implement something like it as an "cute" fade option for NSFPlay. It'd be easy to do with the emulation.

Other games that I know do music fading, that you might want to check out:

1. Startropics (even uses Zxx to fade triangle)
2. Just Breed
3. Uchuu Keibitai SDF


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 542
Location: United States
rainwarrior wrote:
1. Startropics (even uses Zxx to fade triangle)

Th-this is a thing? :shock:

_________________
Ruling the World One Bean™ at a Time...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 6:03 pm 
Online

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19245
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Nonlinear mixing causes $4011 to also control the effective volume of the triangle channel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 pm
Posts: 542
Location: United States
But how does it work? I see the range is from 00-80. And both Z00 and Z80 render the triangle volume to its highest. Does that mean if I want a fadeout I go from 00-7F?

And does each value give the Triangle a unique volume level?

_________________
Ruling the World One Bean™ at a Time...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:12 am
Posts: 6448
Location: UK (temporarily)
Yes. Values from 00 through 7F produce triangle channel volumes approximately equal to pulse channel volumes F through 7, respectively.

However, every time you change the volume, there will be a quiet click proportionate to the amount of change; some people on the famitracker forums have used 8- or 132- long DPCM samples, all +s or -s, to control the volume in a more continuous (and higher frequency) manner, however those produce quiet but audible "zipper" sounds.

The unique volume level comes from the NES APU's non-linear mixing, which in turn comes from misusing MOSFETs. (How much detail do you want?)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: tepples and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group