First bgm attempt. How am i doing?
Page 2 of 2

Author:  Banshaku [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

I personally liked more the first version. The beginning with the change in the instrument for detunning is fine it just later there some radical sudden change in the note and it feels odd a little bit. Maybe I'm just not used to the new version. I will try to check tonight which place it was.

Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

New update to the song in the OP! Longer and probably much better. :P

Banshaku, no you're right. When i switched some of the 2xx effects for a new instrument, the result was a bit more evident. I removed a few of them that stuck out too much for me.

Above all, there were a lot of note progressions which didn't make much harmonic sense, which made certain passages shallow and uneasy. With tired ears i didn't catch them the first time around, because the arpeggio is slightly too fast for my brain to pinpoint what went wrong. I stepped it through and overall, it should have a little more melodic depth to it now.

I'm beginning to feel a little confident i could make a decent soundtrack, though your comments still help me out a lot :beer:

Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

Just an update. I'm beginning to think all the existent frames *might* be final, if i didn't miss something. :) Major overhaul done to frame 8, and lots of minor tweaks elsewhere. I'll upload a copy in the OP aswell. What do you think?

Here's a tip for better tri bass: One thing i noticed was that the bass get a lot better distinction in between notes; especially the fast ones, if the envelope is 0 1 rather than 1. It simulates finger play rather well. Varying between the two is fine, but i'm consistently using 0 1 for this song. This trick wasn't as obvious in my instruments list before, but now it's a separated instrument, partly for clarity, and partly because i wanted to tweak flutish/clarinetish independently from this feature.

encounter_intro_or_story4c.ftm [14.75 KiB]
Downloaded 31 times
encounter_intro_or_story4c.nsf [8.85 KiB]
Downloaded 28 times

Author:  tepples [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

Here are some drum patches to experiment with:

Kick/Snare (noise)
Arpeggio: Absolute 10 0
Volume: 10 10 8 6 4 3 2 2 1 1 0
Note: 0-# (kick); A-# (snare)

Closed hi-hat (noise)
Volume: 4 2 1 1 0
Duty: | 0 1
Note: C-#

Open hi-hat (noise)
Volume: 5 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 0
Duty: | 0 1
Note: C-#

Triangle assist for kick
Arpeggio: Fixed 40 36 33

Triangle assist for snare
Arpeggio: Fixed 47 45

Author:  rainwarrior [ Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

A note on vibrato, look at your loop in instrument 00, and think about the pitch it produces relative to the note:
envelope:  0 |  1  2  1  0  0  0 -1 -2 -1  0  0  0
relative:  0 |  1  3  4  4  4  4  3  1  0  0  0  0
average relative = 2

It first lowers the pitch (1 2 1), then raises it to its starting point (-1 -2 -1). This results in an average pitch that is below the intended pitch of the note, so the result is out of tune.

The envelope should instead start halfway through a rise or fall so the average pitch remains centred and in tune:
envelope:  0 |  2  0  0  0  0 -2 -2  0  0  0  0  2
relative:  0 |  2  2  2  2  2  0 -2 -2 -2 -2 -2  0
average relative = 0

Or alternatively, a smoother version:
envelope:  0 |  1  1  0  0 -1 -1 -1 -1  0  0  1  1
relative:  0 |  1  2  2  2  1  0 -1 -2 -2 -2 -1  0
average relative = 0

Author:  FrankenGraphics [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 6:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

re: Rainwarrior
Thanks for the heads-up on vibrato. My dips are a little too deep, it seems. My ears had grown too used to the sound. There's some more to discuss on this topic, though.

Different physical instruments achieve vibrato differently. With flutes and woodwinds, it is relatively easy to produce the downwards motion, but if you try to push upwards above the initial pitch, the air pressure starts to affect timbre and amplitude more than it affects pitch. To a flutist, a vibrato is a repeated series of dips. It results in an average lower pitch, which i think is probably why many composers facilitate flutes to achieve moaning, mystical or supernatural parts, other than its somewhat hollow timbre.

I tried your pitch-even vibratos, but unfortunately the instrument lost its flute character, accordingly.

Steps taken to achieve a nicer vibrato that is still true to flute characteristics:
1) Flute vibrato changed to 0 | 1 2 0 0 0 0 -1 -2 0 0 0 0.
This is still a downward dip but doesn't go as far, so it sounds less sour, especially on higher notes.
This setup causes the square tone to make a click sound on some 'note on' events (which i think have to do with the pulse cycle being tickled to reset), so
2) Created a second instrument using one of your even vibratos: 0 | 1 1 0 0 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 0 0 1 1
for use any time the sound is clicking too sharp for my taste.

I think this compromise works out. Hopefully those clicks in the attack of a note remain consistent.
ftm snapshot:
encounter_intro_or_story4d.ftm [15.2 KiB]
Downloaded 29 times
(edit: forgot to repoint the noise swoosh to the right instrument in the outro, so it sounds wrong in this snapshot)

re: tepples
Thanks! I haven't had the time to try these out yet, but you must've noticed my infamilarity with drum synthesis on the 2a03 (It's a bit different from how i go about it on a synth). Will try and experiment with those as soon as there's time.

On that note, i came up with this table for using 1xx/2xx for creating Tim Follin-esque kick/tom+bass notes (as heard in Solstice). It's maybe a fool's errand to approach it this way but it works within its conditions. The same technique (ofter in smaller amounts and/or with quicker slopes) can be used in synthesizers to give deep notes a bit of extra punch.

Assuming conditions: Speed 7, tempo 150, 2xx directly followed by 200
tested on NTSC tri wave. 2xx works as coarse tuning, starting note as fine tuning. It is consistent for a while on this speed, then up the scale, it gets a little cryptic to achieve the right pitch. Done by ear, hopefully there's no mistake.
Note* |   2xx |   Starting note:
F-1      2AC   F-5
F#1      2A2   F#5
G-1      299   G-5
G#1      290   A#5
A-1      288   A-5
A#1      280   A#5
B-1      279   B-5

C-2      272   C-6
C#2      26C   C#6
D-2      266   D-6
D#2      260   D#6
E-2      25B   E-6
F-2      256   F#6
F#2      251   F-6
G-2      24C   F#6
G#2      247   E-6
A-2      243   F-6
A#2      23F   F#6
B-2      23B   F-6

C-3      238   G-6
C#3      235   G#6
D-3      231   F#6
D#3      22E   G-6
E-3      22B   G-6
F-3      219   G#6
F#3      226   G-6
G-3      224   A-6
G#3      222   A-6
A-3      220   A#6
A#3      21E   A#6
B-3      21C   A#6   

*the desired landing note for the bass line

Author:  Banshaku [ Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: First bgm attempt. How am i doing?

It's sounding quite good. Part 08 it still doesn't sound right yet to me but it's getting better compared to other versions. The rest in general is improving with every version.

Page 2 of 2 All times are UTC - 7 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group