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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:27 am 
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On each Motherboard of an NES-001 (NTSC) there is a code: NES-CPU-xx

These range from 04 to 11 (I think)

I would like to know if these are all of the revisions of the NTSC NES and what major differences there are between each one. (including chip sets, system architecture, etc) The most I can gather is that each revisions at least improves the CIC (10NES lockout security chip) but for even that I would love to know specifics. I have an 07.

To Specify I do refer to the toaster model only, not the toploader.


Last edited by ConsoleStackup on Thu May 25, 2017 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:58 am 
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Here Is a picture of my 07. If at the very least someone could post picture of their own 07s or other variations that would be a start in figuring out what i need to know ^.^
Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:28 pm 
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http://www.retronintendoreviews.com/ide ... -revision/

To the best of our knowledge, the changes in revisions only (edit)affect the CIC; any game compatibility issues have to do specifically with the specific RAM model, PPU, and CPU revision.

In the US, only the rev E, G, H CPU and PPU were released, and the overwhelming majority of NESs were specifically revision G.

We don't know how the rev E, G, and H CPUs differ. We do know a minor difference in the rev E PPU, but very few games should have a problem with it.


Last edited by lidnariq on Fri May 26, 2017 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:55 am 
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So far, from doing some googling last night, I've figured out at least some changes:
NES-CPU-02 - 2A03E/2C02E-0; 1985 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP-only; 3193 Non-A CIC; (This is the first one "released" in the USA, in the first 10,000? or so test release NES consoles, before wide release)
NES-CPU-03 - unclear if this was even shipped
NES-CPU-04 - 2A03E/2C02E-0; 1986 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP-only; 3193 Non-A or 3193A CIC (release day consoles?, not sure of pcb changes to above); some have a 74HC139 at U3 instead of 74LS139
NES-CPU-05 - 2A03G/2C02G-0; 1986 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP-only; 3193A CIC (not sure of changes to above)
NES-CPU-06 - 2A03G/2C02G-0; 1987 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP;
NES-CPU-07 - 2A03G/2C02G-0; 1987 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP; (not sure of changes to above)
NES-CPU-08 - 2A03G/2C02G-0; 1989 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP;
NES-CPU-09 - 2A03G/2C02G-0 or 2A07/2C07-0; 1987 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP; Has one resistor between CIC pin (data?) and cart connector to thwart some CIC STUN attacks
NES-CPU-10 - 2A03G/2C02G; 1987 copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP; Has two resistors between CIC pins (clock and data?) and cart connector to thwart more CIC STUN attacks, some later pcbs have a hand-added-at-factory diode or diodes to nearby GND vias as well to prevent the -5V attack;
NES-CPU-11 - 2A03G/2C02G or 2A07[A]/2C07[A]; 1987 Copyright on PCB; VRAM and WRAM are NDIP or DIP; Has two resistors and two diodes between CIC pins, cart connector and GND to prevent CIC STUN and -5V attacks
It is possible some very late NES-CPU-11 boards may have the H revision 2A03 or 2C02 but I've never seen one like that yet.

LN

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 5:44 pm 
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I don't have a later rev board to check, but I believe the CIC protection would be on it's data in and reset out lines. Since those are the 2 pins that are targeted by the various CIC stunners.

This wasn't part of the question, but regarding CPU revisions when I modded my top-loader I found that it had G revision parts. I haven't seen an NES-001 with H revision parts either, but it's hard to rule out the possibility.


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:26 pm 
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Do the diodes and resistors on the rev. 10-11 boards make the lockout chip "unstunnable" or "unstunnable" by methods known to be used by contemporary unlicensed games?

Is there a game that glitches on a rev.-E PPU other than Micro Machines?

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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 6:45 pm 
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Any game that relies on the 2C02G's behavior of OAMADDR when it's nonzero will apparently not work on older revisions. (see viewtopic.php?p=194740#p194740 )
We already knew this was true for the RGB PPUs in the Vs. System ( viewtopic.php?p=179676#p179676 ) but didn't connect it to specific PPU revision until Ti_'s post.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:19 am 
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lidnariq wrote:
Any game that relies on the 2C02G's behavior of OAMADDR when it's nonzero will apparently not work on older revisions. (see https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php ... 40#p194740 )
We already knew this was true for the RGB PPUs in the Vs. System ( https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php ... 76#p179676 ) but didn't connect it to specific PPU revision until Ti_'s post.


So glitch-free Micro Machines on a 2C03-modded NES/Famicom won't happen.

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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 10:45 am 
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It's likely that the 2C03G would work... but all the RGB PPUs are rare and I have no idea how much rarer specific revisions are.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:31 pm 
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NES-CPU-08 has a 1989 copyright, unlike boards made after it, which went back to 1987.

I have a suspicion the same WIPO/BERNE/URAA-related Japanese copyright loss and restoration mess (resolved fully in 1996) which made the Roland MT-32 roms from 1986 probably lose their copyright protection (ask CanadaCow about the details of this, it is very complicated) is why this date was changed to 1989, briefly.

LN

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:00 pm 
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Guys all of this is truly great information. I Incredibly curious about revisions 2 and 3. 2 seems to the be the initial test market. and 3 is just MIA? Has anyone seen or heard of these?


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