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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:06 pm 
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So, I've been trying to get a hold of many different people to acquire a couple copies of these... The relevant information that I have found on them is located here:

http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/korea/ ... y-open.htm
http://sinfox04.egloos.com/6307944
http://bbs.ruliweb.com/hobby/board/3001 ... derby=good
http://blog.naver.com/may517?Redirect=L ... 0126808705
http://cafe.naver.com/joonggonara/239398180
http://blog.naver.com/may517?Redirect=L ... 0130720337
http://blog.naver.com/pollalla?Redirect ... 0110696361

Image

From what I can tell, it looks like a hardware unit with a detachable microphone and miniature cartridges like the Camerica Aladdin unit designed by Daewoo. It also has an FM sound chip inside of it. The software was designed by Open Corp; the same people who designed Buzz and Waldog.

I had a brief conversation with "sinfox04" but he does not speak much English and doesn't have much interest in parting with his unit.

Anyone else have more information regarding this product; or have easy access to Korean markets?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:14 pm 
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This looks a lot like the Famicom Titler to me. Never mind, I'm a dolt and didn't read carefully. You're talking about the cartridge, not the system :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:34 pm 
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mikejmoffitt wrote:
This looks a lot like the Famicom Titler to me. Never mind, I'm a dolt and didn't read carefully. You're talking about the cartridge, not the system :roll:

It looks like they came packaged two ways:

With the Noraebang (Karaoke) unit stand-alone:
Image
Image

And included with a Famiclone (also by Daewoo):
Image
Image

It appears that the Daewoo Famiclone used some of the same chips that the Dendy did; a UA6527 and UA6528:
Image


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 4:30 am 
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Am discussing with a collector to get his copy on loan for a dump, I have an extension cart of that as well. But yeah so far he was relunctant to send it by mail.

And yes these things are hard to find plus expensive, even in Korea. There's another, way less known Karaoke cart by a company called Hicom. Last ones I saw for sale were 250 loose and 600 cib. I'm assuming Daou's price the same since these are just as rare. So yeah if you want multiple copies (why??) it's going to cost you a grand quickly.

Here's the PCB of that, if anyone is curious.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/151375036 ... ed-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/151375036 ... ed-public/

(I'll get that dumped btw)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:15 am 
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Fantastic news! Hrm... Those pictures aren't high-resolution enough to make out what's inside of them. :/ It also does not appear to look like the unit?

Well... The goal is to get the whole thing emulated. I was considering the fact if it needed to potentially be destroyed for science. Hopefully if we get better pictures and you get your hands on it, you can also figure out the mysteries. :)

Do we know the total amount of extension carts and which ones there are?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:38 am 
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I mentionned this was the other Karaoke cartridge that was released in Korea. Much smaller cartridge and has 3 times the number of song. Also less popular because it came from a smaller distributor.
As for the Daou's one, there are 4 known ext carts.

Also…
Since when RE has been about killing them for science? There are dumpers specialised for these rare games with complex mapper/circuitry (CaH4e3, Kevtris, dforce…). If i'm not sure about my ability to dump it safely I'd rather send it to a professionnal than waste a copy and having to eventually find another??

It'd be a shame to waste a copy of an already rare cartridge if it can be done safely with the help of other people?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:04 am 
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Hrm... Interesting. So I'm not familiar with this other cartridge then. Destruction is obviously not the goal, but some chips cannot be dumped by desired means. I was just planning for "just in case."

Very interesting though! Is it the same program?


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:37 am 
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B00daW wrote:
Hrm... Those pictures aren't high-resolution enough to make out what's inside of them. :/
What? I mean, I can't RE it just from these pictures, but it's not because some of the part numbers are illegible.

Code:
74????? 74LS00 74LS138 ⅛"jack resistorpile
74LS161                         GD4066 MC3403P
74LS139         74LS273 74LS273  moreresistors
maskrom   8KRAM


I can certainly take educated guesses at what's going on—e.g. the GD4066 probably allows for software-adjustable volume control of the microphone.

But the real problem (to me) is that I can't see the traces that are under the ICs, especially the DIP ones.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Dumping the chips won't be enough anyway, I'm positive this operates on a unimplemented mapper so you'd need to do hardware & software RE. So your best bet to get it dumped and emulated would be a person used to such items.
Add to that the necessary update to the emulator to provide mic input directly to the game as it expects it.
Not an easy task by any means.

And no, it's a completly different software. I do have a kazzo but I haven't done any attempt at dumping it because it obviously won't work on any common mapper (and it's the only Famicom game from this company so it's likely a singleton mapper).

I can take HD pics of the PCB if anyone needs/wants them. But I won't desolder any chip by myself.
I can also try to follow some traces with a multimeter but I got no time to do that at the moment.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:13 pm 
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OK... Well this is a secondary "Noraebang" item; and it's of interest as well, for sure.

Yeah! Might as well give us some more HD pictures of the cart and casing. That would be nice. :) Do we know the name of this cart, the software maker, and hardware maker? Kazoo dumper or TapeDump may do the trick if we can figure out the mapping from pictures. Otherwise CopyNES is also a good solution.

My personal interest in the Daewoo cart is finding out the FM chip inside of it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:20 pm 
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Title: Kkachi wa Norae Chingu
Developper/Publisher: Hicom (You can see their logo on the pcb in fact, solder side, bottom left)
Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LA1bjvaFiU

I'm not singing on the video but you can hear me blowing in the mic like an idiot ( :) ) at the very end of the recording. The audio output is fairly nice tbh.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Thank you! I see the page here: http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/korea/ ... -hicom.htm

Seems like this is a boolean sorta switch thing... The mic can tell whether or not air pressure is applied, then the signal is supplied to the cart. To emulate this we'd just also need to know which register value the mic is mapped to. Doubt it's the same as the Famicom mic?

In regards to dumping 까치와 노래친구 we would only need to dump the PRG and CHR ROMs. :) No destruction would be necessary.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Kkachi-wa is dumped.
>KKachi-wa Norae Chingu (K) (Unl).nes
It was UOROM, thanks to NewRisingSun for the support.

Now if it is possible or not to figure out how to feed the ROM with the microphone input it expects is another question.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:58 pm 
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Let's debug it. PM me with details.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:55 am 
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Thanks.

Looks like it's reading two different addresses and comparing them... It's reading from $6000 and $6001. (These are likely the Mic (Force/Volume) Input values. Not sure why it needs two just yet...) Did most of the debugging with No$NES. To emulate this, we'd have to figure out the hardware of the mic input and the values that are stored/read. I'm not the greatest at hardware, but we'd have to trace hardware address $6000 and $6001 to the cart, see what it's connected to, and maybe look up a datasheet on those components.

Looks like bit 7 of $8000 is also mic enable?

The game is a 512KB UxROM.

This looks like the mic reader routine:
Code:
CCED   A5 00      LDA $00  // $00 address value starts as #$10 during karaoke
CCEF   85 01      STA $01  // set up bankswitching
CCF1   A9 80      LDA #$80 
CCF3   85 00      STA $00
CCF5   8D 00 80   STA $8000
CCF8   8D 00 80   STA $8000  // mic enable?  can't be 2MB PRG. ;P
CCFB   EA         NOP
CCFC   EA         NOP
CCFD   AD 00 60   LDA $6000  // load mic input (a) byte?
CD00   6A         ROR A
CD01   B0 40      BCS $CD43
CD03   A2 00      LDX #$00
CD05   86 67      STX $67
CD07   AD FF FF   LDA $FFFF
CD0A   AD FF FF   LDA $FFFF  // value of $FFFF is #$D3
CD0D   CA         DEX
CD0E   F0 40      BEQ $CD50  // branch to other routine (not currently understood)
CD10   AD 00 60   LDA $6000  // load mic input (a) byte?
CD13   6A         ROR A
CD14   90 F1      BCC $CD07
CD16   A2 40      LDX #$40
CD18   8A         TXA
CD19   4A         LSR A
CD1A   69 E7      ADC #$E7
CD1C   A8         TAY
CD1D   C8         INY
CD1E   30 FD      BMI $CD1D
CD20   CA         DEX
CD21   F0 12      BEQ $CD35
CD23   AD 01 60   LDA $6001 // load mic input (b) byte?
CD26   6A         ROR A
CD27   B0 06      BCS $CD2F
CD29   E6 67      INC $67
CD2B   EA         NOP
CD2C   4C 18 CD   JMP $CD18
CD2F   AD 00 60   LDA $6000 // load mic input (a) byte?
CD32   6A         ROR A
CD33   B0 E3      BCS $CD18
CD35   86 68      STX $68
CD37   A5 18      LDA $18 // value is #$01
CD39   09 40      ORA #$40
CD3B   85 18      STA $18
CD3D   A5 1C      LDA $1C // value is #$2C
CD3F   09 02      ORA #$02
CD41   85 1C      STA $1C
CD43   A5 01      LDA $01 // value should still be #$10
CD45   85 00      STA $00
CD47   8D 00 80   STA $8000
CD4A   8D 00 80   STA $8000  // bankswitch?
CD4D   EA         NOP
CD4E   EA         NOP
CD4F   60         RTS
CD50   A9 00      LDA #$00
CD52   85 68      STA $68
CD54   85 67      STA $67
CD56   4C 43 CD   JMP $CD43
CD59   A5 1C      LDA $1C
CD5B   29 84      AND #$84
CD5D   D0 5D      BNE $CDBC
CD5F   A5 11      LDA $11
CD61   29 78      AND #$78
CD63   D0 57      BNE $CDBC
CD65   18         CLC
CD66   A9 00      LDA #$00
CD68   A6 63      LDX $63
CD6A   30 02      BMI $CD6E
CD6C   A5 63      LDA $63
CD6E   A6 64      LDX $64
CD70   30 02      BMI $CD74
CD72   65 64      ADC $64
CD74   A6 65      LDX $65
CD76   30 02      BMI $CD7A
CD78   65 65      ADC $65
CD7A   A6 66      LDX $66
CD7C   30 02      BMI $CD80
CD7E   65 66      ADC $66
CD80   C9 18      CMP #$18
CD82   90 0A      BCC $CD8E
CD84   C6 63      DEC $63
CD86   C6 64      DEC $64
CD88   C6 65      DEC $65
CD8A   C6 66      DEC $66
CD8C   A9 18      LDA #$18
CD8E   85 4C      STA $4C
CD90   4A         LSR A
CD91   29 0F      AND #$0F
CD93   85 4E      STA $4E
CD95   A9 0C      LDA #$0C
CD97   85 4F      STA $4F
CD99   20 4A E9   JSR $E94A

Anybody have any more thoughts? (Edit: Fixed the offsets in the disassembly.)


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