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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:06 am 
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If i'm to buy one or two crt monitors that will be used *a lot* together with a PAL unit, what are my best options? Do you have any favourites?

i'm looking at price (they don't need to be cheap but shouldn't fetch a ridiculous price either) and availability of replacement unit with the same form factor if something goes sour eventually. It is important that it can be turned on for long periods on a daily basis. Even better if they can turn on automatically as soon as they're connected to mains, but not necessarily. I'm looking at ebay and maybe that's not the best place to look - a lot of the screens seem to be outside the EU region, or they're monochrome closed circuit/security monitors.

Wether the monitors have all kinds of fine adjustments or not isn't too important. It does not need to be top of the line.

Is sony PVM the end-all be-all?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:36 am 
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Well, what exactly do you need a monitor for, where a regular CRT TV wouldn't be sufficient?

Personally I wholeheartedly recommend the PVM because you can barely get a better quality monitor - but unless you get a lucky find that someone posted somewhere, they can get somewhat expensive.
JVC also made some broadcast monitors of a similar build that are quite good, relatively common, and usually available a bit cheaper.

But for anything other than "getting the best picture", there's no reason to go high-end like that. Using anything other than RGB signals (or at least anything lower than S-video) with these monitors is definitely a waste, but I guess that goes without saying.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:59 am 
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It's supposed to (possibly, i'm looking into options) be a kiosk wholly comprised of used or new-old-stock parts as part of a thematic experience, in an exhibition about literal garbage.

The monitor is going to be turned on for at least 8-10 hours per day, 6 days in the week, and if it eventually breaks, a replacement should be relatively easy to find, which probably rules out more obscure monitors. It doesn't need to be the exact same model as long it doesn't require building a whole new cabinet. It definitely doesn't need to be a particular monitor that every gamer in the world is after. ;)

So i'm mainly looking at industrial/broadcasting monitors to avoid "designed for the dump"-duds in the home market, and because they're fairly easy to fit/mount. If an electrolytic cap needs replacement, that's an easy repair.

JVC monitors looks like a nice option.. thanks!

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:26 am 
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Or to put it shorter: "I seek a CRT for an arcade cabinet. Unusually, the system board produces PAL composite video, not the more usual 15.7k x 60 Hz RGB."


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:45 pm 
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That's almost literally what i wrote in the first line, haha. Well, except explicitly mentioning arcades.

About the "unusually", a bit of the point is to use old household junk. So i'm simply putting a slightly modified NES in there which happens to be PAL because that's what i have to spare. I just feel i can't trust a regular household TV to do the job. Besides, Second hand stores do not even sell those anymore and fewer are putting that up on auction; they go straight to the recycler.

I did use four old tv sets for another project but that was a bit finicky (one of them had problems surfacing) and the time frame was much shorter so it didn't matter all that much. A cool thing was seeing how different my graphics looked on each and every of them, side by side.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:44 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
The monitor is going to be turned on for at least 8-10 hours per day, 6 days in the week, and if it eventually breaks, a replacement should be relatively easy to find, which probably rules out more obscure monitors. It doesn't need to be the exact same model as long it doesn't require building a whole new cabinet. It definitely doesn't need to be a particular monitor that every gamer in the world is after. ;)

So i'm mainly looking at industrial/broadcasting monitors to avoid "designed for the dump"-duds in the home market, and because they're fairly easy to fit/mount. If an electrolytic cap needs replacement, that's an easy repair.


PVMs and BVMs are definitely the most commonly available monitors out there. There are a lot of different (but similar) models though.

I've never found that CRT TVs from well known brands feeling like they are "designed for the dump". Of course they can break, but even most of the old ones still work fine. Especially Panasonic, Sony and Philips are really solid, reliable brands.
I don't know about Sweden, but the B&O MX-series of TVs are very common here. They tend to cost a little (maybe 2-300kr), but they are among the absolute best consumer grade CRT TVs out there. And they have the advantage that they almost always look pretty much the same, if that consistency is an issue. They look really good too, IMO.

Honestly, I think using a PVM monitor for a NES without an RGB mod is a ridiculous waste. PVMs are amazing, and should be put to good use! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:06 am 
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I'm just extra wary of risks, because *if* something breaks, i need to travel quite the distance to replace or repair it, in what capacity i may be able to do so. Plus, once the project is finished, i get to reclaim the monitor for more personal pursuits ;)

B&O might be a good lead. Mostly, i feel people had german or japanese brands or the local swedish one. Maybe it was part due to successfully marketing B&O as something luxurious, but here they're kind of viewed as very high-end luxury home equipment (not that i doubt that they were), compared to the local and somewhat more pedestrian-feeling luxor brand* . We had two Luxor tv:s at home and they were in need of repair on a yearly basis, and one of them eventually started to whine mercilessly loud at an unconvenient point where the repairshop also closed down.


I need to check on the prices and availability of B&O tv:s here. You can get their stereo equipment for a wrinkled bank note.

Quote:
if that consistency is an issue. They look really good too, IMO.

Yeah, mostly, i don't want to give the carpenter more work to do just in case one breaks down, so the form factor is as important as the availability of spares. Rackmount is best, then standardized chassis, then freeform crazyness.

*(cultural trivia: also known for a licensed, local fairchild console (luxor video entertainment system) and the hugely popular abc80 computer line whose computer club is still alive. much like BBC would broadcast programs freely over antenna to BBC micro, the abc computer club would broadcast programs and games if you were lucky to live within the receiving area over stockholm).


All in all, this has been super helpful. Much obliged.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:52 am 
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B&O were/are absolutely the high-end luxury brand. If I recall correctly the tube inside them is Panasonic brand anyway, but they were ridiculously expensive when they were new. I know becuase my parents bought one. And a lot of people bought one.
But that doesn't stop people from trashing their old CRT TVs nowadays, and they just want to get rid of this stuff, hence they are super cheap now (but I wager they'll be extremely sought after in the future).

FrankenGraphics wrote:
Rackmount is best, then standardized chassis, then freeform crazyness.

I'd go with any professional broadcast monitor you can find then. No reason to go specifically for PVM, as those are usually expensive due to their quality.
That kind of monitor is always the same square shape (stackable/rackmount), so as long as they are the same screen size, they should fit the same chassis, I'd assume.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:15 am 
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Fair warning, most of the NTSC <-> PAL converters that are cheap on Amazon don't work, in my experience. I had the reverse issue and no matter which one I tried, it was no dice.

I really wish we had something like the Spectrum HD adaptor for the ZX on the Ataris. It uses a PI Nano to convert and upscale the signal off the bus and allow you to use the Speccy on any HD capable TV.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 2:29 am 
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Any European TV/monitor that isn't complete crap will most likely support NTSC without issues.
I'm not sure why you'd want to convert the signal, but I think it does without saying that it's never beneficial to a video game.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 4:53 am 
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Topazy wrote:
I really wish we had something like the Spectrum HD adaptor for the ZX on the Ataris. It uses a PI Nano to convert and upscale the signal off the bus and allow you to use the Speccy on any HD capable TV.

Something like kev's Hi-Def NES kit?


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