Recca cart authenticity

Discuss hardware-related topics, such as development cartridges, CopyNES, PowerPak, EPROMs, or whatever.

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FrankWDoom
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by FrankWDoom » Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:51 am

this thread kind of freaked me out so I popped mine open. board is definitely legit and i'm pretty sure the label is too.
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Great Hierophant
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Great Hierophant » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:00 am

Thank you very much, we are all greatly indebted to you!

Ice Man
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Ice Man » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:08 am

Yea, that cart is 100% legit.

FrankWDoom
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by FrankWDoom » Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:17 am

Glad to help. If anyone wants pics of anything specific let me know.

I was worried about the label because its really sharp. The close ups show the screen printing but its so fine its very hard to tell in person.

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Quietust
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Quietust » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:43 am

It'd be interesting to see the board name, since I'm pretty sure it is not HVC-TKROM (as all of the fakes seem to be) - inconveniently, it seems to be covered up by the CHR ROM chip, but it might still be visible if you look at it from the side.

It's also interesting to note that the second "fake" cartridge has a PRG RAM chip which the game doesn't even use!
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FrankWDoom
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by FrankWDoom » Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:59 am

Sorry my lighting isn't the best. HVC-TLROM-04

Its also pretty wild they have original mmc3 chips. Those have to be harvested from real carts right?
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lidnariq
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by lidnariq » Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:01 pm

I was about to say that the board shape implies TLROM or TLSROM, and the hole under C2 and location of the PCB model text implies HVC-TLROM-04

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Bregalad
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Bregalad » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:09 pm

Why would people fake Recca carts specifically, and take so much care for the board to appear to be a Nintendo board, and solder a genuine MMC3 on it ?!
I mean is this game extremely researched by collectors, expensive, or anything ?

And, the weirdest of all, why bother creating a fake TSROM board, disolder a MMC3 from a genuine board and solder it there ? Wouldn't it be simpler to just change the ROMs form an existing game ?

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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by tepples » Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:15 pm

Wikipedia's article cites Nostalgic Guide of Family Computer stating that the game sold in very limited quantities, in part because it was released more than a year and a half after the Super Famicom was out.

Reusing an authentic TLROM board would have required reworking it to accept the flash ROM pinout, not the mask ROM pinout. Making a board from new parts conceals this rework from the untrained eye.

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Quietust
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Quietust » Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:19 pm

Of course, now that we've seen exactly what a real Recca cartridge board looks like, the counterfeiters will also know what to make them look like...
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FrankWDoom
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by FrankWDoom » Sat Apr 11, 2020 3:30 pm

Quietust wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 2:19 pm
Of course, now that we've seen exactly what a real Recca cartridge board looks like, the counterfeiters will also know what to make them look like...
that tkrom style bootleg board already has pins close enough I wasn't sure (vs the much more obvious pins in the 1st post). and without a proper reference for the label I had to open it to be sure.

I'm of the opinion its better for knowledge to be public. bootleggers will always be playing catch-up, so having an informed consumer keeps them ahead.

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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by tepples » Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:01 pm

Not to mention that photos of authentic HVC-TLROM boards, such as those of Rockman 3 and Cosmic Epsilon, have been on NesCartDB since 2007.

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Quietust
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Quietust » Sat Apr 11, 2020 7:29 pm

tepples wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:01 pm
Not to mention that photos of authentic HVC-TLROM boards, such as those of Rockman 3 and Cosmic Epsilon, have been on NesCartDB since 2007.
True, but nobody actually knew that Recca used HVC-TLROM until now.

Of course, the fakes might continue to use HVC-TKROM for the same reason that most MMC3 prototypes used [NES/HVC]-TKEPROM - it works with pretty much any MMC3 game that uses CHR ROM, and you can just omit whatever components aren't needed (like the battery and the extra RAM).

Real cartridges used the simplest/cheapest board that satisfied all of the necessary conditions (e.g. TSROM if you only needed the RAM with no battery, TLROM if you didn't need the RAM at all, or TBROM if your PRG ROM was particularly small) because they were mass produced, but these counterfeiters most likely aren't operating anywhere near the scale where they'd actually benefit from that.
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Bregalad
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Bregalad » Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:46 am

the game sold in very limited quantities, in part because it was released more than a year and a half after the Super Famicom was out.
Many NES/FC games were released after the SNES/SFC. And many of them are not particularly rare.
tepples wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:15 pm
Reusing an authentic TLROM board would have required reworking it to accept the flash ROM pinout, not the mask ROM pinout. Making a board from new parts conceals this rework from the untrained eye.
OK but then why not create a fake TLROM board (with flash ROM pinout) instead of a fake TSROM ? And in all cases, looking at the ROMs it's obvious they're fake. So why not make like all other bootlegs carts who use their own PCBs (often featuring chip-on-board "epoxy blobs"), assuming anyone opening the cart will discover the fraud anyway ?

Pokun
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Pokun » Sun Apr 12, 2020 4:09 am

Well sales significantly drop when a new system comes out. That's one reason why for example both Gimmick! and Mr Gimmick are so rare. But in this case it's probably mostly because it's a caravan shmup made for a specific event. It was not made to be sold as a normal game, so not so many copies were produced. Another reason is that it has a fantastic engine and plays smoothly at very high speed making it highly sought after among shooter fans. The engine comes from Dezaemon though, and Recca was made based on that, or possibly was made using a custom version of Dezaemon or something.

FrankWDoom wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 11:59 am
Its also pretty wild they have original mmc3 chips. Those have to be harvested from real carts right?
Yes, unless there is a CPLD with the same packaging that you can relabel. There are pirate MMC3 clones though.

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