Recca cart authenticity

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NewRisingSun
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by NewRisingSun » Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:38 am

tepples wrote:Wikipedia's article cites Nostalgic Guide of Family Computer stating that the game sold in very limited quantities, in part because it was released more than a year and a half after the Super Famicom was out.
Pokun wrote:Well sales significantly drop when a new system comes out.
I find that a bit hard to believe. I would not expect people in 1990 to throw out their Famicoms, or stop buying Famicom games, just because a successor system has come out. It would be interesting to see per-annum sales figures of Famicom and NES cartridges in Japan and North America. I would expect SFC cartridge sales exceeding FC cartridge sales no earlier than 1993 or 1994, when the installed base of SFC consoles had sufficiently grown.

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Quietust
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Quietust » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:20 am

Bregalad wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:46 am
tepples wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:15 pm
Reusing an authentic TLROM board would have required reworking it to accept the flash ROM pinout, not the mask ROM pinout. Making a board from new parts conceals this rework from the untrained eye.
OK but then why not create a fake TLROM board (with flash ROM pinout) instead of a fake TSROM ?
I assume you meant TKROM, not TSROM - as I said, they probably would have made a fake TLROM board if they had known that that's what the real game actually used, but TKROM works better as a one-size-fits-all board for counterfeiting random MMC3-using games.
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Pokun
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Pokun » Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:46 am

NewRisingSun wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:38 am
tepples wrote:Wikipedia's article cites Nostalgic Guide of Family Computer stating that the game sold in very limited quantities, in part because it was released more than a year and a half after the Super Famicom was out.
Pokun wrote:Well sales significantly drop when a new system comes out.
I find that a bit hard to believe. I would not expect people in 1990 to throw out their Famicoms, or stop buying Famicom games, just because a successor system has come out. It would be interesting to see per-annum sales figures of Famicom and NES cartridges in Japan and North America. I would expect SFC cartridge sales exceeding FC cartridge sales no earlier than 1993 or 1994, when the installed base of SFC consoles had sufficiently grown.
I find the opposite hard to believe. It's widely known that people loves new things and looses interest in older things. The Famicom was king until the SFC came and it suddenly got a new competitor. This has been the case for every new popular system that comes out.

That said, the Famicom and NES did very well for a long time well into the 16-bit era, and Nintendo produced the New Famicom all the time until the end of its patient. In Sweden, the SNES probably also didn't do as well as the NES and Game & Watch (both which were extremely popular), and I know a lot younger people than me that say they grew up with a NES, although they weren't even born during it's prime. Mr Gimmick did apparently fail to get attention though. I didn't even know about Mr Gimmick or Uforia until many years later, because my focus was entirely on the SNES during that time.

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olddb
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by olddb » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:22 am

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Bregalad
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Bregalad » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:32 pm

NewRisingSun wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:38 am
I find that a bit hard to believe. I would not expect people in 1990 to throw out their Famicoms, or stop buying Famicom games, just because a successor system has come out. It would be interesting to see per-annum sales figures of Famicom and NES cartridges in Japan and North America. I would expect SFC cartridge sales exceeding FC cartridge sales no earlier than 1993 or 1994, when the installed base of SFC consoles had sufficiently grown.
I agree with you, but it also depends on people's mindset. A typical japanese gamer might be more avid of new systems, camping in front of the shop a couple of nights before the release, and throw out the old system at 1st occasion. A typical US or European gamer might have a more conservative "if it isn't broken don't fix it" mentality, and keep replaying his favourite games again and again, keep the system hooked to the TV until there's really no room for it anymore. Also I heard that SNES consoles were incredibly expensive in Europe at the start of that system's lifespan.

Of course those behaviors will depend from person to person more than from country to country.
Quietust wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 6:20 am
I assume you meant TKROM, not TSROM - as I said, they probably would have made a fake TLROM board if they had known that that's what the real game actually used, but TKROM works better as a one-size-fits-all board for counterfeiting random MMC3-using games.
You assume right, but I still don't get the point, by playing the game in an emulator they can quickly see if it uses SRAM or not, and they could "guess" the game was very likely to use a TLROM board, like the vast majority of games with MMC3 mapper and without any SRAM.

TKROM can be good to counterfeit the majority of MMC3 games, but they'd need actual MMC3 in any case which is a major limitation of this way of faking game - the only advantage of not modifying the existing board is the absence of visible rewiring, but the flashroms are still visibly false as well as the board itself.

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Fisher
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Fisher » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:08 pm

That's great to have pictures of the board!
Can the pictures' owner please put them on BootGod's site?
That would be great for everybody!!

Ice Man
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Ice Man » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:27 am

Totally agree.

Pokun
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by Pokun » Sun Apr 19, 2020 6:18 am

I agree as well. I also think keeping information public is the way to counter bootleggers (and the information is already out in the air now anyway).


Bregalad wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:32 pm
NewRisingSun wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:38 am
I find that a bit hard to believe. I would not expect people in 1990 to throw out their Famicoms, or stop buying Famicom games, just because a successor system has come out. It would be interesting to see per-annum sales figures of Famicom and NES cartridges in Japan and North America. I would expect SFC cartridge sales exceeding FC cartridge sales no earlier than 1993 or 1994, when the installed base of SFC consoles had sufficiently grown.
I agree with you, but it also depends on people's mindset. A typical japanese gamer might be more avid of new systems, camping in front of the shop a couple of nights before the release, and throw out the old system at 1st occasion. A typical US or European gamer might have a more conservative "if it isn't broken don't fix it" mentality, and keep replaying his favourite games again and again, keep the system hooked to the TV until there's really no room for it anymore. Also I heard that SNES consoles were incredibly expensive in Europe at the start of that system's lifespan.

Of course those behaviors will depend from person to person more than from country to country.
My prejudice for North America would say NA is like Japan and embraces new products with open arms, and throws away perfectly working products that are slightly old and out of fashion, but I don't know. Europe might be more conservative though, especially southern Europe. Scandinavians are the oddballs in Europe, and loves both new and old things.
But I mean don't people everywhere buy new smartphones every year even though they are not very different from the previous year's model and very expensive? Nowadays electronics are pieced together by glue and breaks after a year anyway though.


I personally never throw away games though, and still had my NES long after I got a N64 (at which some point it was thrown away on me, without my permission).

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rainwarrior
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by rainwarrior » Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:35 am

Bregalad wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 1:46 am
the game sold in very limited quantities, in part because it was released more than a year and a half after the Super Famicom was out.
Many NES/FC games were released after the SNES/SFC. And many of them are not particularly rare.
It seems funny that people are arguing about the minor part of that statement rather than the major part. Recca was produced in very limited quantities.

The full name "Summer Carnival '92: Recca" maybe gives some more insight as to why they produced so few copies. It was made for a specific competition event, and not intended to be produced at full scale. At the same competition they also made a similar PC Engine CD game Alzadick.

I think their Summer Carnival event lasted 3 years before they decided it wasn't successful enough to continue with. Their 93 game was a similar shmup. In 91, I think they were unveiling their game Seirei Senshi Spriggan, which they had made directly after doing some ports of shmups for Compile. I think that last one was more considered a full game, and not just produced for the competition.

So... there's a lot of reasons here why it was limited. 1992 and 16-bit consoles are certainly a part of it, but not the only reason. I'm sure there's other reasons that we can't even speculate about, Naxat's business success/failures/expectation/resources etc.

MLX
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Re: Recca cart authenticity

Post by MLX » Sun Apr 19, 2020 1:42 pm

Bregalad wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 1:09 pm
Why would people fake Recca carts specifically, and take so much care for the board to appear to be a Nintendo board, and solder a genuine MMC3 on it ?!
I mean is this game extremely researched by collectors, expensive, or anything ?

And, the weirdest of all, why bother creating a fake TSROM board, disolder a MMC3 from a genuine board and solder it there ? Wouldn't it be simpler to just change the ROMs form an existing game ?
Don't take my words for granted as I cannot find the original tweet anymore but I remember seeing a japanese shop posting a photo of a shelf with various DIY stuff, including unsoldered MMC3B chips sold at the unit. Trying to find back this tweet, I found various commercial reproduction board sold in Japan that had only a spot for a Nintendo MMC3 chip. Not for an AX5202P, 88 or any other commercially available clone.

I suppose they're more after having something authentic? Or MMC3 donors are so cheap they don't care.

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