Xmas 2016

Discuss hardware-related topics, such as development cartridges, CopyNES, PowerPak, EPROMs, or whatever.

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mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Mon May 18, 2020 2:27 pm

rainwarrior wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:16 pm
mario64 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:09 pm
Great thank you. Forgive me if this is a dumb question but NT Mini runs the actual cart without issue. Wouldn't that mean it supports mapper 30? Also, I have found that the rom is crashing after maybe 20 minutes of running its demo loop. I'm testing now to see if the cart does this too or if it is related to the dump
No, when you run the cart, the cartridge hardware is supplying the mapper.

When you run a ROM image using the NT Mini jailbreak software, its software us supplying a surrogate mapper in its own FPGA.

I've noticed this ROM crashes if I press START for too long on the title screen, which is curious. The website version doesn't have that problem despite the garbled graphics and missing music... wonder if it's something going on in the music engine, actually.
Interestingly the cart crashes too after approximately 20 minutes so that doesn't seem to be related to my dump. I believe Xmas 2008 will crash too after an extended period (hours).

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm

rainwarrior wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:17 pm
BunnyBoy said it was okay, so I'm uploading the ROM here.
Oh wow! This is different than what is posted on their site? This one works?

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rainwarrior
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by rainwarrior » Mon May 18, 2020 2:44 pm

mario64 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:28 pm
Oh wow! This is different than what is posted on their site? This one works?
It's your dump. I decoded it from the image you posted.

(Attached the quick python program I wrote to do that, in case it's useful to anyone in the future.)
Attachments
binx2nes.zip
(592 Bytes) Downloaded 8 times

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Mon May 18, 2020 3:08 pm

mario64 wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 2:27 pm
Interestingly the cart crashes too after approximately 20 minutes so that doesn't seem to be related to my dump. I believe Xmas 2008 will crash too after an extended period (hours).
May have spoken too soon on this. The cart crashed running on an AVS but on my NT Mini it's been going for hours without issue. Perhaps it is something with my cart dump after all

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Mon May 18, 2020 10:35 pm

Just another update. NT Mini ran the cart for several hours no issue so I know it is good. Mesen emulator ran the dump you provided for several hours no issue so I assume it is good. However, Everdrive N8 Pro crashes after approximately 20 minutes on both AV Famicom and RetroUSB AVS. MISTer hangs immediately after the splash screen.

So my question is, am I safe to assume the dump is good?
The problems with N8 Pro and MISTer are due to poor mapper 30 support?
Mesen is more accurate?

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rainwarrior
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by rainwarrior » Tue May 19, 2020 1:07 am

The dump is likely fine. They don't normally come out corrupted. Generally you either get everything or garbage that won't run.

Much more rarely some transmission error will cause a bad dump, but you can try dumping it a second time and comparing the two files if you really want to make sure.

If the crash is legitimate and rare, it's possible that it might happen on most/all environments you try but not every time? Maybe you've just been lucky/unlucky with the ones where it's happened so far.

The platforms that don't run it at all probably just don't support that version of the mapper. (When using the original cart, i.e. not PowerPak / Everdrive / NT Mini jailbreak SD card, etc., there is no mapper issue because the mapper is part of the cart.)

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Tue May 19, 2020 6:30 am

rainwarrior wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:07 am
The dump is likely fine. They don't normally come out corrupted. Generally you either get everything or garbage that won't run.

Much more rarely some transmission error will cause a bad dump, but you can try dumping it a second time and comparing the two files if you really want to make sure.

If the crash is legitimate and rare, it's possible that it might happen on most/all environments you try but not every time? Maybe you've just been lucky/unlucky with the ones where it's happened so far.

The platforms that don't run it at all probably just don't support that version of the mapper. (When using the original cart, i.e. not PowerPak / Everdrive / NT Mini jailbreak SD card, etc., there is no mapper issue because the mapper is part of the cart.)
Thanks again. I may try to dump it again. I just checked and MISTer NES core page says mapper 30 is supported

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rainwarrior
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by rainwarrior » Tue May 19, 2020 1:06 pm

mario64 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:30 am
]Thanks again. I may try to dump it again. I just checked and MISTer NES core page says mapper 30 is supported
I'm sure it supports the more common form of mapper 30. This less common form (flashable, register at $C000 only) is probably not.

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm

rainwarrior wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 1:06 pm
mario64 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 6:30 am
]Thanks again. I may try to dump it again. I just checked and MISTer NES core page says mapper 30 is supported
I'm sure it supports the more common form of mapper 30. This less common form (flashable, register at $C000 only) is probably not.
Gotcha. I did another cart dump today and it behaves similarly, i.e. runs flawlessly on Mesen and FCEUX but on both N8 and N8 Pro it crashes at exactly the 20 minute mark - which seems odd. Perhaps some mapper behavior at that point it doesn't like. NT Mini won't run it at all. I opened a ticket with the MISTer NES core team. Hopefully they will be willing to investigate and make the necessary improvements.

One question though, the official (corrupt) rom for this game uses mapper 2. Any idea why the actual cart uses 30? Is that because of the LEDs? If so, is there a way to convert it to use mapper 2 like the official rom? Or somehow transplant the missing graphics into it from my dump?

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rainwarrior
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by rainwarrior » Tue May 19, 2020 4:15 pm

mario64 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm
One question though, the official (corrupt) rom for this game uses mapper 2. Any idea why the actual cart uses 30? Is that because of the LEDs? If so, is there a way to convert it to use mapper 2 like the official rom? Or somehow transplant the missing graphics into it from my dump?
Note that the download page explicitly states "No emulator support."

Mapper 30 is a relatively new thing. RetroUSB had been making these UNROM512 boards for years, but nobody bothered to put them into an emulator until a few years ago. When this game was released, almost nothing supported this mapper. Things are different now because a lot of other homebrew has started using it (esp. NESmaker).

Mapper 2 is like mapper 30 with a smaller subset of features. This ROM can't be converted to it, no. Some games that don't use all of mapper 30's features can be run as mapper 2 (e.g. Battle Kid). The LED light controls are part of what makes it incompatible, but that's not the only thing going on.

However, the ROM for this on the page has mapper 30 set, so I don't know what you mean. At least the version I downloaded yesterday was. It's clear they didn't expect this to run at all in emulators. Setting it to mapper 2 previously might have at least gotten the emulators of that time to run it a little bit, instead of just giving an error that it's never heard of mapper 30.

The demo ROM on the website definitely runs functionally as mapper 2, just with the wrong graphics, and no music. The wrong graphics was to be expected without mapper 30 support anyway (there's a missing graphics bankswitch feature), so I guess they didn't notice the ROM itself also had the wrong graphics data in it. (Dunno why they left the music out, though. Also in the data it says TRISTAN instead of CHRISTMAS and some other weird differences...)

mario64
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Re: Xmas 2016

Post by mario64 » Tue May 19, 2020 4:47 pm

rainwarrior wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 4:15 pm
mario64 wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 3:27 pm
One question though, the official (corrupt) rom for this game uses mapper 2. Any idea why the actual cart uses 30? Is that because of the LEDs? If so, is there a way to convert it to use mapper 2 like the official rom? Or somehow transplant the missing graphics into it from my dump?
Note that the download page explicitly states "No emulator support."

Mapper 30 is a relatively new thing. RetroUSB had been making these UNROM512 boards for years, but nobody bothered to put them into an emulator until a few years ago. When this game was released, almost nothing supported this mapper. Things are different now because a lot of other homebrew has started using it (esp. NESmaker).

Mapper 2 is like mapper 30 with a smaller subset of features. This ROM can't be converted to it, no. Some games that don't use all of mapper 30's features can be run as mapper 2 (e.g. Battle Kid). The LED light controls are part of what makes it incompatible, but that's not the only thing going on.

However, the ROM for this on the page has mapper 30 set, so I don't know what you mean. At least the version I downloaded yesterday was. It's clear they didn't expect this to run at all in emulators. Setting it to mapper 2 previously might have at least gotten the emulators of that time to run it a little bit, instead of just giving an error that it's never heard of mapper 30.

The demo ROM on the website definitely runs functionally as mapper 2, just with the wrong graphics, and no music. The wrong graphics was to be expected without mapper 30 support anyway (there's a missing graphics bankswitch feature), so I guess they didn't notice the ROM itself also had the wrong graphics data in it. (Dunno why they left the music out, though. Also in the data it says TRISTAN instead of CHRISTMAS and some other weird differences...)
I see. That makes sense then. Thank you again!

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