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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 8:41 am 
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Hi folks,

First time poster here, but I'm a member of many of the other popular boards (digitpress, AA, NESworld, NintendoAge, RFGeneration, etc.). I have a NTSC prototype of a released game that differs slighty from the final version (mostly text). The ROM is undumped, and I would like to dump it for personal use just incase the carts dies on me I can flash the rom back on. I have emailed Kevin without an answer and I am getting desperate for a way to dump my game as I invested a decent chunk of change to aquire it and would hate to see it go to waste. Does anyone know a better way to get a hold of Kevin or to aquire a CopyNES? If not, are there any other methods of dumping a rom that are are very userfriendly? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

-Mark


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 9:18 am 
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Copy NES is currently discontunited.
mrmark0673 wrote:
The ROM is undumped, and I would like to dump it for personal use just incase the carts dies on me I can flash the rom back on.

Because you wouldn't even want to dump it for other people ? Would you buy one of those guys mentionned here ?


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 2:27 pm 
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This topic has been beaten to death on every board I have ever been on, there is no need to bring it in here. I paid good money for a game that I wanted to own. Just because I have a car doesn't mean I should be obligated to let other people drive it. I don't want the game to be lost forever, its a released game with just minor differences, and I paid for it. Had I found it at a flea market for $2, I'd let everyone enjoy it, but I paid a large some of money for something that I enjoy and do not feel the need to intentionally decrease the value of my game. I don't plan on selling the game, but god forbid I have to its nice to know its worth what I paid for it. There are many proto collectors out there that dump their games, and many who do not. To quote DreamTR from a post on the DP boards:

"BocoDragon: I actually think YOU would be the jerk the way you act all high and mighty about this. I've had many of my unreleased NES protos donated to the community, but of course people are clueless to it and still think I'm hoarding everything left and right. Have YOU ever found an unreleased proto and shared it? Who are these "pimp and elite" collectors you speak of that horde unreleased prototypes for "capitalist value?" I'd like to know. Most unreleased protos don't go up in value like you say. They are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them. They are, at their most valuable, when they are undumped, and there is demand for them. If you donate it for free and not recoup any of your losses after paying $1500-3000, congrats to you, you illegally publically released a game that you hold no copyright to. Who cares that you did that? The ROM community?

My point is if I pay $1000 for a game, I want to recoup my finances for it. That's not being stingy, that's just making sure you don't take a loss so someone like BocaDragon gets to play the game. This is precisely why the dumping community gets a bad name, having to deal with your "ideas" on the situation when you haven't really done anything or collected any of the stuff to begin with. If you have, prove me wrong and tell me where these obscure Genesis, SNES, and NES prototypes in the past year that have been dumped and released publically came from. Oh wait, that's right, most of them came from my "horded" collection. Gosh darn it."

I'm interested in playing this game for as long as I own it. If I don't dump it for myself and it rots, what good is it to anyone? If I ever do sell it, and again I am fairly certain I won't, I would give the rom to the new owner to do as they please with it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:24 pm 
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CopyNES isn't discontinued, only the Windows version of the software is. If you can run DOS/Win9x you can use it. Most likely the Win32 software's last version is OK too.

http://www.tripoint.org/kevtris/Projects/copynes/index.html

I would offer to dump it but I can't get my CopyNES to work 90% of the time.. I think it won't cooperate with my PC's onboard parallel port.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:28 pm 
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mrmark0673 wrote:
ust because I have a car doesn't mean I should be obligated to let other people drive it.

I wouldn't let people drive mine either. But if I could make a copy of my car and let people drive that instead, without wearing mine out, maybe I would. =)

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I don't want the game to be lost forever

But it will, as soon as you die, after a long life of not releasing it to anyone.

Quote:
Had I found it at a flea market for $2, I'd let everyone enjoy it, but I paid a large some of money for something that I enjoy and do not feel the need to intentionally decrease the value of my game.

Sure, because I'm sure it's more enjoyable if no one else is playing.

Sorry, I don't mean to be an ass or anything. I really do try to respect collectors, and I don't think they are bad people (at least not for being collectors). But I find the whole concept of selling and buying these things for ridiculously high prices pretty ridiculous.

I can't understand how someone can want a prototype/unrelesed game so badly to the point of paying lots of cash for it, unless it's something really unique, with features or levels that did not make into the final game, or a port of a great game that never got released (I think the only game I'd be willing to spend a LOT of cash on would be a Sonic 1 prototype, but I'd want to share the coolness of it with all Sonic fans!). But what's really hard to understand is, why is it more enjoyable if only you have it? Is it a "I feel superior" thing? In practice, John Doe owning the same ROM as you, and playing it at his home, will not affect you in any way. You don't know John Doe.

I mean, the money is already lost, and if you really want your great game to live on, dumping it for you won't do it. When you die, whoever lives with you will trash your valuable collection of ROMs recorded in CD's anyway. People will format your hard drive. So the game will be lost after all. But it doesn't matter, since you're dead.

I guess the "collectors vs the world" war will go on forever. Both will always have arguments.

EDIT 0: Note that when I say "you" I don't mean you, but just a random collector.

EDIT 1:
Memblers wrote:
I would offer to dump it but...

But then you'd have a copy of the precious ROM!!!!!! :shock:

EDIT 2:
I have a question for collectors: Most of the time, when you buy a prototype you don't know how early it is, so when you pay a huge ammount of money for something really close to the final game, do you feel embarrassed or something like that? It must be really hard to feel like you spent a lot of money for nothing, and admit you bought crap, and most likely regret doing it.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:59 pm 
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I might be going out on a limb but it sounds almost like you expect special treatment. You could have just said "please help me dump my NES game" and avoided this. If you never release it regardless of whether you preserve it for yourself, what good is it to anyone, just the satisfaction of helping a guy protect his personal investment in the holy name of preservation? While that may work in the collecting scene, put bluntly, shiny things are often not quite as impressive to the developers as they are to the collectors. So please try to see through my (our?) practical point of view.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Ugh, I saw this coming. I'm not some hording collector, I own ONE prototype, thats it. I paid more than I should have because it is a proto of my favorite game for the NES and that alone means something to me. I'm not going to defend why I bought it or why I paid so much for it, and its not for bragging rights as I have not told anyone I own it. I played it a few times with my brother and it was cool to play a slightly different version of a game we both grew up loving when I was around 6-8 years old. I don't want it to be useless to me so yes, I would like a little security in keeping something I paid good money for. I'm confused why the community is so uptight about people not freely giving away something that they bought. I'm not keeping it to myself to be selfish, but although it was an investment in a game I play, it was still an investment the same way you spend money on anything else. I don't play anything through emulation, I don't buy repos, and I don't care if someone wants to keep a ROM for them self. I don't buy multiple copies of the same game, I've never resold a thing on EBay, I don't intentionally try to inflate market prices, I'm not the bad guy. I collect games for a system that I loved growing up and still play to this day. If anyone could help me back up a game that means something to ME, that would be greatly appreciated. At the same time if you don't, thats cool too. Didn't mean for this to become a debate over whether a proto should be dumped or not, I'm sure you guys have had this conversation a million times.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:20 pm 
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kyuusaku wrote:
I might be going out on a limb but it sounds almost like you expect special treatment. You could have just said "please help me dump my NES game" and avoided this. If you never release it regardless of whether you preserve it for yourself, what good is it to anyone, just the satisfaction of helping a guy protect his personal investment in the holy name of preservation? While that may work in the collecting scene, put bluntly, shiny things are often not quite as impressive to the developers as they are to the collectors. So please try to see through my (our?) practical point of view.


I understand your point, but I was just interested in buying a device to help get things done myself. I Don't see how giving money to developers on this board is a bad thing, although looking back I clearly could have stated things differently to get myself out of this trouble. I'm sorry if you thought I was looking for some handout here where someone could dump a cart for me that I would keep for myself and get nothing in return for it, that to me would be a selfish act. I meant no harm in the original post, I was just looking to see if there was anyone on these boards that could help me out. I assumed this was like many of the other NES boards I frequent as I know many of the members on those boards come here, but clearly I was mistaken. Most of you have strong (similar) views on the matter and I respect that. I could do something like a collective pool to dump the game, but I don't see much sense in that either. I have no intention of making a profit on this game, and being that there are so few differences in this game than the final release, I assume no one on here would even care to play it. How many of you honestly get enjoyment out of playing a game that is just like another game except for a few name changes and spelling errors? Well to me, it was worth it. It marks a period of time where my favorite game was being developed and I think that is pretty cool, its almost like a piece of history. Anyway, I respect your point of view, but I do disagree with it to some extent. I believe the rights of the item should belong to the person who purchased it as it was available to anyone who would have liked to make an offer on it. If I could dump the ROM and assure myself that I didn't throw away the $300 I spent on it, I'd do it in an instant. I don't mind if people play the game, thats fine, but I don't understand why I have to be the person to make it available after spending the money when anyone else could have done it. Not selfish, just not foolish either.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:23 pm 
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tokumaru wrote:
...I can't understand how someone can want a prototype/unrelesed game so badly to the point of paying lots of cash for it, unless it's something really unique, with features or levels that did not make into the final game, or a port of a great game that never got released...


especially protos that are just like the released version, give or take, but are buggier/incomplete. what is the point in that? now if a hellraiser proto cart ever surfaced...


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 4:52 pm 
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mrmark0673 wrote:
If I could dump the ROM and assure myself that I didn't throw away the $300 I spent on it, I'd do it in an instant. I don't mind if people play the game, thats fine, but I don't understand why I have to be the person to make it available after spending the money when anyone else could have done it. Not selfish, just not foolish either.

Honestly, you should be able to pretty easily recoup your losses through small donations if you dump the game. It has been done before on far more expensive games such as Propeller Arena for DC.


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:58 pm 
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So.. what game is it, anyway?


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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Listen, go to Lostlevels.org. Yes, they are a group of guys dedicated to releasing and preserving unreleased games and protos, but if you ask someone to dump it for you and not release it without your permission, it will be honored.

Of course, those guys love to release games when possible, but more that anything, they want to see things preserved.

-Rob


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 9:30 am 
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For the proto, I really definitely don't care myself, since whathever the game is, I can download the final version of it anytime, and it will be even better, because the devloppers have made the changes they estimated they needed to improve it, so the final version is SUPPOSED to be better. Then why is the prototype worth $10000000 and shouldn't be dumped when the final, better version is worth $4 and should be dumped ? I also imaginate the label on the cart is much better on the final version, and if you're lucky you could find a boxed/manual version with artwork, wich is even better.

I still cannot imagine why one would his game to be dumped for his own self and wouldn't want anyone to potentially share this data. You know, when I'm downloading a ROM and that I've to chose between the prototype version or the final version, I download the good dump of the final version without an instant of hesitation, because it is presumbaly better. However, the goal of ROMs is to have anyone play any version of any game at any time without paying or anthing, with the only contraint that this in not on the real hardware, wich is to me a serious inconvenient.
Then I really don't see the point of thinking "Hahahahaha I'm the only one to have that precccciousss game (like Gollum) hahahaha and noone even has a ROM of it hahahahaha".
Reading what you said, you could as well have the revision A version of SMB3, love it as a child, and then would you pay a ridiculous amount of cash to play the original revision of SMB3 and read "Miss twice and your out" instad of "You can only miss twice" ? That makes no sense.

Not to mention I could fake any prototype of any game and sell it $1000000 and be rich for my whole life heheheh (no just kidding).


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 10:17 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
whathever the game is, I can download the final version of it anytime, and it will be even better, because the devloppers have made the changes they estimated they needed to improve it

Unless the changes included censorship demanded by NOA. Nintendo would not allow what are now called M-rated games on its system during the NES and early Super NES eras.

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I still cannot imagine why one would his game to be dumped for his own self and wouldn't want anyone to potentially share this data.

So that the authorities can't peg him for copyright infringement?


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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 11:31 am 
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Prototype versions sometimes have a level select menu and other cheats designed to help testers. These cheats were often (though not always) taken out of the final version. In addition, sometimes early versions of games have bugs that can be fun to exploit (see my signature). I am particularly thinking of Zelda: Ocarina of Time for N64, whose earliest released version had some fun glitches that were partially or completely fixed in newer revisions. A prototype would, in theory, have more bugs which can even further "enhance" gameplay (although the bugs can also ruin it, depending on their nature).

_________________
"Last version was better," says Floyd. "More bugs. Bugs make game fun."


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