Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

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l_oliveira
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by l_oliveira » Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:20 am

aodinets wrote:There is not additional sound, I don't understand why.
You're using HACKED copy of Gimmick game (Suikan Pipe). That will NEVER work because Suikan Pipe has music program code disabled (music writes disrupt VRC chip operation).

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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by lidnariq » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:46 am

I was going to say ... isn't the AX5208C an MMC3 clone? It's not possible to rewire that to be compatible with the Sunsoft 5/7.

I am irrationally pleased by the use of binder clips to hold the two PCBs together, though.

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l_oliveira
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by l_oliveira » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:20 pm

lidnariq wrote:I was going to say ... isn't the AX5208C an MMC3 clone? It's not possible to rewire that to be compatible with the Sunsoft 5/7.

I am irrationally pleased by the use of binder clips to hold the two PCBs together, though.
AX5208C is a VRC2 clone. 100% identical. If you slap that on a Konami board it will work just as like the original chip would.

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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by lidnariq » Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:23 pm

Tangenting wildly: is there a list of what clone name corresponds to what original IC somewhere?

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l_oliveira
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by l_oliveira » Thu Oct 31, 2013 3:16 pm

lidnariq wrote:Tangenting wildly: is there a list of what clone name corresponds to what original IC somewhere?
Not that I know. Just as cryptic as the 40 pin MMC3 clone which has '88' written on it's top. :roll:

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aodinets
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by aodinets » Thu Oct 31, 2013 7:49 pm

l_oliveira wrote:
aodinets wrote:There is not additional sound, I don't understand why.
You're using HACKED copy of Gimmick game (Suikan Pipe). That will NEVER work because Suikan Pipe has music program code disabled (music writes disrupt VRC chip operation).
It's a great pity...

Pirate MMC1: AX52, AX5904
Pirate MMC3: AX5202P
Pirate VRC2/4: AX5208C

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Ben Boldt
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ben Boldt » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:24 am

Hello, does anybody still have the schematics from earlier in this thread? It seems that they have mostly disappeared.

I have taken a Dodge Danpei cart with FME-7 and changed the ROMs to Gimmick!. This is functioning properly without expansion audio.

I have an AY-3-8910 coming in the mail but the only schematic I can find in this thread now is for the much smaller YMZ284. I am thinking that /WR and /CS will be the same, but if anyone already has figured out what to do with analog channels A, B, C and the address lines, it would be greatly appreciated.

I know that AY-3-8910 is a very large 40-pin DIP but I do believe that I have a spot for it!
Attachments
PLCC32 sockets, D-Flip-Flop, Quad 2-input NAND
PLCC32 sockets, D-Flip-Flop, Quad 2-input NAND
Connections.  Planning to put the AY-3-8910 above where I have written "PRG".
Connections. Planning to put the AY-3-8910 above where I have written "PRG".

Ice Man
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ice Man » Mon Apr 18, 2016 10:37 am

Here you go. ^_^
Attachments
AY-3-8910.gif
AY-3-8912.png

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Ben Boldt
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ben Boldt » Tue Apr 19, 2016 10:46 pm

Oh cool, thank you so much! I most likely have some 74LS139s somewhere if I dig around a little. I will try this soon and let you know how it goes.

I have a missing pulse detector circuit that a coworker designed for me using a 74HC14 and some resistors and caps. It detects a 10 msec gap in toggling. I put it into a Madara cartridge and hooked it to PRG A0. So, every time you press reset, A0 stops changing, then triggers the circuit, which I use to clock a counter. That cartridge starts as original Madara (Japan), then goes to Akumajou Densetsu (English), then Madara (English), then loops back to Madara (Japan). So, this can be used in Famicom carts where the reset signal is not available. I originally was going to use M2, but strangely enough, I got all sorts of garbage after a moment as I am holding down reset, as if the clock was attempting to start back up or something. Definitely it would have caused multiple triggers. A0 looked just fine, and you're pretty much guaranteed that it's toggling at least every cycle or two. In fact, my Nintendo takes 20 msec before the CPU clock starts running, so I always get an initial pulse that I can use to initialize my counter.

For the Dodge Danpei cart, I plan to have it start as Gimmick and then have Hebereke (English) selectable in the upper half of the ROMs this way, using the other half of the D-flip-flop. I will probably have to reset the AY-3-8910 based on the missing pulse circuit to avoid stuck notes when switching to Hebereke.

Anyway, I will provide pictures and schematics of what I end up with. Hopefully all goes well!

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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by tepples » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:54 am

Ben Boldt wrote:I have a missing pulse detector circuit that a coworker designed for me using a 74HC14 and some resistors and caps. It detects a 10 msec gap in toggling. I put it into a Madara cartridge and hooked it to PRG A0. So, every time you press reset, A0 stops changing, then triggers the circuit
[...]
A0 looked just fine, and you're pretty much guaranteed that it's toggling at least every cycle or two.
Clever. There is always a rise or fall during the second cycle of any instruction. I think the theoretical minimum frequency for A0 during normal operation is one cycle per 8 CPU cycles:

Code: Select all

.setcpu "6502X"  ; unlocks RMW+ALU instructions such as 8-cycle SLO (dd),Y
.align 2
test:
  ; Write pointer to $0000 at $0001
  ldy #$00
  sty $01
  sty $02

  ; PC is even at the start of each instruction
  .repeat 128
    slo ($01),y
    ; 1: even (PC+0:  SLO)
    ; 2: odd  (PC+1:  $01)
    ; 3: odd  ($0001: address low)
    ; 4: even ($0002: address high)
    ; 5: even ($0000: Y added only to low byte of address)
    ; 6: even ($0000: read old value)
    ; 7: even ($0000: write old value)
    ; 8: even ($0000: write new value)
  .endrepeat
  rts
The only way I can see for A0 to toggle slower than M2/8 on an NES is if a DMC DMA stretches this unrolled loop by four cycles, but that's still nowhere near the time constant you chose.
Anyway, I will provide pictures and schematics of what I end up with.
Once you do, may I post the reset detector schematic on our wiki for others to use?
In fact, my Nintendo takes 20 msec before the CPU clock starts running, so I always get an initial pulse that I can use to initialize my counter.
I wonder what other people see for time from +5V to A0 toggle on their systems. I imagine it might differ greatly between front loaders and top loaders (Famicom, NES-101) because the lockout chip generates reset signals in front loaders.

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Ben Boldt
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ben Boldt » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:06 pm

Absolutely, feel free to put my schematic on the wiki. It uses a 74HC14 because that's what we happened to have laying around. A 74HC04 should work just as well. However, this circuit relies on the high-impedance HC inputs, so 74LS04, 7404, etc, will not work properly if at all.

I am using a front-loader where I measured ~20 msec. This seemed to be consistent within +/- 1 msec after many tries. We would definitely want to check out top loaders before relying on the initial pulse of this circuit, but I am thinking that there must be some delay. I don't have a top loader or a CIC-defeated front loader to test unfortunately.

For me, the AY-3-8910A was too quiet when I used the circuit provided. I changed the 3k pull-down into a 10k pull-down and I think it sounds great now. The extra audio is now just slightly louder than it is in Nestopia. I actually think it sounds much better than Nestopia, so I just left it as-is.

I didn't find the same decoder chip for the BDIR signal, but I worked through the logic and found a way to do it with a quad 2-input NOR gate.

Also, I created a couple of Game Genie codes for Gimmick:
SXOEEKVK - Don't take damage when hit
AVOEEKVG - Invincible
I am working on an infinite lives code. The code I came up with crashes the game in level 2 if you die for some reason.
Attachments
Reset and Flash ROM Bank Select
Reset and Flash ROM Bank Select
BDIR logic with quad 2-input NOR gate
BDIR logic with quad 2-input NOR gate
bdir.gif (8.02 KiB) Viewed 9067 times
John's Missing Pulse Detector
John's Missing Pulse Detector

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Ben Boldt
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ben Boldt » Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:08 pm

More Images.
Attachments
Front with John's Missing Pulse Detector
Front with John's Missing Pulse Detector
Back with AY-3-8910 installed
Back with AY-3-8910 installed
I needed a 10k pull-down with my setup.
I needed a 10k pull-down with my setup.
audio.gif (6.64 KiB) Viewed 9066 times

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Ben Boldt
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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by Ben Boldt » Sat Apr 23, 2016 6:43 am

I took a different approach:

LVKVTALA - Start with 99 lives

-----

EEXAPOKZ - Super Jump

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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by krzysiobal » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:30 pm

Do the Gimmick+AY8912 sounds really like on the emulator?
Because I did the modification and i am quite dissapointed by the sound quality. I can definitelly hear some additional sound during game title music, but the quality is not so great - for example when gimmick throws the star, I cannot hear any special sound. Is that normal?

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Re: Connect AY-3-8910 sound chip to FME-7 board

Post by rainwarrior » Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:37 pm

krzysiobal wrote:Do the Gimmick+AY8912 sounds really like on the emulator?
Because I did the modification and i am quite dissapointed by the sound quality. I can definitelly hear some additional sound during game title music, but the quality is not so great - for example when gimmick throws the star, I cannot hear any special sound. Is that normal?
I've made some hardware reference recordings of Gimmick! from my famicom (modded for direct RCA audio out). Here's a video of a playthrough you could compare against:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZX6DYe3ffU

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