A word of caution about my test: it looks like I made it use MMC1 for some reason that I can't remember, but omitted doing any mapper initialization (wtf?). It was probably an accident, so I've attached the same ROM as NROM into the original post.
PAL chroma merging?
Moderator: Moderators
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: fo.aspekt.fi
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Interesting, looks like Dendy PPU's color generation is indeed different than in 2C07.Eugene.S wrote:Uh, Sunrise is coming, so too much glare on TV-screen
Are the colors on the bottom left and bottom right the same?
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: fo.aspekt.fi
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Do you mean palblend test?
Bottom-right is more violet than bottom-left.
Bottom-right is more violet than bottom-left.
- Attachments
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- kinopio_nes_palette_viewer_updated.nes
- (24.02 KiB) Downloaded 380 times
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- nes palette viewer.nes
- (24.02 KiB) Downloaded 376 times
Last edited by Eugene.S on Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Here is new, more accurate capturing via AverMedia tuner (thanks to HardWareMan):
Blarrg's Full Palette viewer:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Kinopio's test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Merge test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ svideo: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Palblend test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ [moderator: recovered images from web.archive and attached]
Blarrg's Full Palette viewer:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Kinopio's test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Merge test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ svideo: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ Palblend test:
composite: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ s-video: http hwm.us.to/famimusic/Capture/6538_Tests/ [moderator: recovered images from web.archive and attached]
Last edited by Eugene.S on Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Are these shots from a different version of the Dendy PPU than the ones from before? In this case the color generation seems to be the same as in 2C07.Eugene.S wrote:Here is new, more accurate capturing via AverMedia tuner (thanks to HardWareMan):
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: fo.aspekt.fi
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Yes, this is different PPUs
My PPU is:
UMC UA6538
9051-bs
813410
download/file.php?id=1949&mode=view
HWM's PPU:
UMC UA6538
9051-bs
611510
download/file.php?id=24273&mode=view
[moderator: updated URL to forum copies of images]
This is so strange. There are similar chips.
My PPU is:
UMC UA6538
9051-bs
813410
download/file.php?id=1949&mode=view
HWM's PPU:
UMC UA6538
9051-bs
611510
download/file.php?id=24273&mode=view
[moderator: updated URL to forum copies of images]
This is so strange. There are similar chips.
Last edited by Eugene.S on Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Unless different TVs are decoding the signal differently. Could you try the two revisions on the same brand of TV or tuner card?
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Yes you are right Tepples.
I've just my PPU to revision, like HardWareMan have.
And my TV shows like 813410 revision
[moderator: recovered images from web.archive]
I've just my PPU to revision, like HardWareMan have.
And my TV shows like 813410 revision
[moderator: recovered images from web.archive]
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Given the Avermedia pictures, I wonder if plugging a 2C07/Dendy straight into S-video luma would give us enough information to reverse engineer what's going on?
Or maybe there's already enough image in the "Kinopio's test: s-video" picture?
It's a little unfortunate that 13.5 MHz ÷ 4.43MHz is only ≈3. Makes it a little more difficult to determine what's going on solely by inspection instead of rigorous measurement.
Or maybe there's already enough image in the "Kinopio's test: s-video" picture?
It's a little unfortunate that 13.5 MHz ÷ 4.43MHz is only ≈3. Makes it a little more difficult to determine what's going on solely by inspection instead of rigorous measurement.
- HardWareMan
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:12 am
Re: PAL chroma merging?
I can do more (clickable):
http savepic.ru http savepic.ru [moderator: recovered images from web.archive.org]
I can disconnect chroma pin to get pure B&W picture with color subcarrier on it, but I think reducing saturation is more than enough. Anyway, these pictures has no most imported part of puzzle: color burst. Because PAL/NTSC decoders adjust their PLL with color burst and then compare phase shift of subcarrier in scanline. So at this pictures we see only relative phase shift between different colors.
http savepic.ru http savepic.ru [moderator: recovered images from web.archive.org]
I can disconnect chroma pin to get pure B&W picture with color subcarrier on it, but I think reducing saturation is more than enough. Anyway, these pictures has no most imported part of puzzle: color burst. Because PAL/NTSC decoders adjust their PLL with color burst and then compare phase shift of subcarrier in scanline. So at this pictures we see only relative phase shift between different colors.
Re: PAL chroma merging?
I'd like to see how all $1x colors mix with a neutral gray $00 on alternating scanlines. Should I write a quick test ROM for this?
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Yes, you can write it. I and HardWareMan both have InviteNESes flashcartridges to test it.
here is updated version of Kinopio's palette viewer
It work stable on NTSC/PAL/Dendy timings:
https://forums.nesdev.com/download/file.php?id=14270
here is updated version of Kinopio's palette viewer
It work stable on NTSC/PAL/Dendy timings:
https://forums.nesdev.com/download/file.php?id=14270
- Attachments
-
- nes palette captured.zip
- (7.33 KiB) Downloaded 380 times
Last edited by Eugene.S on Sat Dec 22, 2018 3:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.
- HardWareMan
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:12 am
Re: PAL chroma merging?
Yes, please.tepples wrote:I'd like to see how all $1x colors mix with a neutral gray $00 on alternating scanlines. Should I write a quick test ROM for this?
Re: PAL chroma merging?
"Your message contains too few characters."
- Attachments
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- palphase-0.01.zip
- PAL phase test (NROM-128 binary and source)
- (13.59 KiB) Downloaded 383 times
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- Theoretical output of the program if an RGB PAL NES existed
- palphase_ideal_output.png (8.53 KiB) Viewed 8992 times