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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:14 pm 
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I need to find an NES console below $15 because that's the maximum I can give for one. Any console that has NES chips is okay as long as it runs games like the original NES.
I've found them around $30 and even as high as $55! This is crazy! How can an old weak console be so expensive? I usually find these stuff cheap online, especially on eBay.

Do you have any experience in buying an NES console online? What was the cheapest one you found?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:25 pm 
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amzn.com/B002RYLG4Q ?

No, it's not a "real" NES, and it has seems to have the full set of obnoxious almost-clone mistakes:
* the stupid "shorts /CIRAMCE to PPU /A13" making it incompatible with a short list of games.
* the swapped duty cycles mistake

But it's only $15, shipped. And other than the above points, it's completely accurate.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:39 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
it has seems to have the full set of obnoxious almost-clone mistakes:
* the stupid "shorts /CIRAMCE to PPU /A13" making it incompatible with a short list of games.

I would bet the PowerPak fails the same way, as the FC Twin at a local game shop wouldn't boot it. To run homemade games or ROM hacks, you'd need to buy a matching INL-ROM cartridge for each mapper used by a game that you plan to run.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:02 pm 
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lidnariq wrote:
* the stupid "shorts /CIRAMCE to PPU /A13" making it incompatible with a short list of games.

If I'm not mistaken, he wants to use the console to test his MMC5 project, so this one is definitely out.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:14 pm 
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I know I sound like a real jerk, but if you truly want an NES, $50 really shouldn't be that much. I don't know your age, but if you have exactly $0, you could mow people lawns for money or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:19 pm 
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$30 does sound like a lot, you could probably get one for $5-10 at a yard sale or thrift store.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:25 pm 
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Really though? Maybe I'm just money bags or something.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:27 pm 
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tokumaru wrote:
lidnariq wrote:
* the stupid "shorts /CIRAMCE to PPU /A13" making it incompatible with a short list of games.

If I'm not mistaken, he wants to use the console to test his MMC5 project, so this one is definitely out.

I really have a bad luck... >.<
Espozo wrote:
I know I sound like a real jerk, but if you truly want an NES, $50 really shouldn't be that much. I don't know your age, but if you have exactly $0, you could mow people lawns for money or something.

Lol no. I'm finishing high school this year. But money is a big problem in this country. Recession and stuff... I don't want to start talking about that, it's too dark.

Hey! Would it be easier if I bought an FPGA dev board, joypad connectors, cartridge connectors, AV connectors and then flashed in the circuitry of the NES? Or if I bought the 6502, 2A03 and etc chips, made my own PCB (which I know how to do it as I've recently learned it in school) and connected everything myself? And how come those NES connectors are so expensive? Is it possible to use a 3D printer that prints multiple materials at once (A conductor and a plastic) to make those connectors?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:33 pm 
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8bitMicroGuy wrote:
Espozo wrote:
I know I sound like a real jerk, but if you truly want an NES, $50 really shouldn't be that much. I don't know your age, but if you have exactly $0, you could mow people lawns for money or something.

Lol no. I'm finishing high school this year. But money is a big problem in this country. Recession and stuff... I don't want to start talking about that, it's too dark.

I don't know why, but whenever someone doesn't say where they're from, I always assume they're from the U.S. Maybe it's an American thing?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 3:50 pm 
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8bitMicroGuy wrote:
Would it be easier if I bought an FPGA dev board, joypad connectors, cartridge connectors, AV connectors and then flashed in the circuitry of the NES?
You'll almost certainly pay more for the FPGA dev board than for a used NES.
Quote:
Or if I bought the 6502, 2A03 and etc chips, made my own PCB (which I know how to do it as I've recently learned it in school) and connected everything myself?
You'll also probably also pay more for a loose 2A07 & 2C07 than for a used NES.
Quote:
And how come those NES connectors are so expensive?
There's been no significant production volume since the original production lines shut down. And even then, Nintendo was the only buyer, so any original loose stock is going to be from Nintendo's original liquidation. Everything else is going to come from disassembly, or from 3rd-party famiclones... and you probably need to know how to read and write chinese to figure out how to buy them not part of a famiclone.
Quote:
Is it possible to use a 3D printer that prints multiple materials at once (A conductor and a plastic) to make those connectors?
The dual-material printers use a relatively soft conductor that's not really usable as a mating connector. You'd do better to get loose pins and insert them through a just-plastic assembly. I'm still not certain that's necessarily a better deal price-wise either.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Rather than all this hemming and hawing and sperglording (esp. "building your own NES" or something):

How about you give me an Email address that's associated with PayPal and I'll donate US$100 for you to get yourself a working NES (say, off eBay or elsewhere) and/or some additional dev hardware (donor carts, etc.)? No strings attached.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:15 pm 
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If you want an NROM cart fitted with sockets and some EPROMs from my drawer, let me know, I don't want them.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:02 pm 
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koitsu wrote:
Rather than all this hemming and hawing and sperglording (esp. "building your own NES" or something):

How about you give me an Email address that's associated with PayPal and I'll donate US$100 for you to get yourself a working NES (say, off eBay or elsewhere) and/or some additional dev hardware (donor carts, etc.)? No strings attached.

Why would you want to suddenly send me $100?
mikejmoffitt wrote:
If you want an NROM cart fitted with sockets and some EPROMs from my drawer, let me know, I don't want them.

I might buy those. Can you tell me how many times EPROMs can be written?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:49 pm 
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8bitMicroGuy wrote:
Why would you want to suddenly send me $100?

koitsu is like that, he just likes to help. Many times people show up here with some problem between them and their goal of making a game, and koitsu apparently has enough faith in them that he's often willing to help get the obstacles out of the way.

mikejmoffitt wrote:
Can you tell me how many times EPROMs can be written?

Hundreds of thousands, it seems. But don't go with EPROMs, they can only be used with UV light, which is slow (it takes several minutes to blank a chip) and possibly dangerous. Flash ROMs and EEPROMs can be erased electronically in seconds.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:11 pm 
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8bitMicroGuy wrote:
Why would you want to suddenly send me $100?

Because that's my way of helping indie developers, other than giving advice with code/etc.. I did this with 93143 (sent him money to get an EverDrive or SD2SNES, I forget which). He's working on a port of a game to the SNES which is incredibly timing-sensitive, so being able to test on real hardware vs. emulators has been beneficial to him. I've also helped with some of the NESDev Compos by donating to provide the winnings.

In case that explanation isn't sufficient, here's my reasoning: a lot of people don't have the funds to get the equipment they need, and that can be frustrating, which later turns into diminished morale, and finally dismissal (e.g. "I wanted to do this NES project, but I don't have enough money to get real hardware, everything is so expensive, so screw it!"). I've been there, I know how it feels. And while I'm not rich or anything, I live comfortably within my means, and money is just money (I loathe money). Plus, I get good feelings from helping people out. We live in a day/age where people find it intimidating/scary/weird when another person just wants to help with no strings attached -- instead (especially in the US) the norm is "I'll front you the money, but in exchange you have to put my name in big lights somewhere" -- and I find that despicable (that's more of a business transaction, not helping someone out/a donation). I just like helping people. Honest.

But you can always say no, too! Some people, if accepting stuff like that, feel a deep sense of humility and like they "owe" the person who helped, and thus will turn down help to keep from experiencing that feeling. I totally understand that too. And others are just sensitive about their privacy/anonymity, and I definitely respect that as well.

Hope that answers your question. :-)

And yes, go with either EEPROMs or flash. Don't bother with EPROMs. Honestly though, the "most convenient" way is to get a PowerPak. If you run into odd mapper problems that work on emulators but not the PowerPak, the mapper code on the PowerPak can be updated (I believe loopy here on the forum has updates to the PowerPak mappers).

But as I understand you're wanting to do MMC5, which the PowerPak's mapper set doesn't have support for right now (not sure if loopy's packs added that or not), so you might have to build a devcart... but it's going to be painful -- MMC5 carts are not as prevalent/easy to find as other mappers. Are you absolutely sure you want to go with MMC5? The main limiting factor (from what I've read) seems to be your need for more actual RAM. That's going to be a tough one. Honestly your project sounds like it's better-suited for the SNES, especially when I read about your need for a multiplication operator (the 65816 doesn't have this natively, but the SNES does offer MMIO registers that do hardware multiplication and division). The topic of C on the 65816 (and what tools are available) has been discussed in other threads -- you're going to have a hard time finding such tools.


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