It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:46 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1510
Is there a list of NTSC NES games where the PAL version was adjusted in any way? I'd really be curious which games did changes to the code to accomodate for the 50 Hz since most PAL games simply run slower than their NTSC part.

Games where just the music was corrected don't need to be listed since this feature is relatively common, uninteresting and doesn't influence the gameplay.

Of course, games where the PAL version was changed in a purely stylistic way that had nothing to do with the technical side ("Contra"/"Probotector"), those don't count either. I'm only interested in technical NTSC/PAL adjustments, not in content-wise changes between the American and European version.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19334
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Duplicate of your previous topic about PAL adjustment?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 12:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1510
No. Last time I wanted to know what I can do for my game to adjust it to PAL.

Now I'm asking which actual games (not homebrew, but the commercial games) changed anything for their PAL conversion and what exactly they changed.
This time, I don't want to apply it to my own game. It's just general curiosity what different things were done in real games.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 3:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7312
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
All 5 Mega Man games had the music pitch and speed adapter to PAL, and this even caused some "bug" in Mega Man 3 where you can hear the proto man whistle song continue too far before he attacks. I think that means most Capcom games released in PAL have their music speed and pitch adjusted - this would have to be verified.

Konami also have most of their games with music speed and pitch adjusted, except the early ones. For instance, I'm pretty sure Castlevania 1 does not have any adjustement made, but Castlevania II and III have their music speed and pitch adjusted.

Same for Nintendo, early games have music speed and pitch untouched (so wrong in PAL), but later games have it fixed. SMB1 has 2 releases, one is 1:1 identical to NTSC, and the second has music speed, pitch but also game play speed adjusted, which is probably the only officially released NES game with gameplay speed adjusted.

Batman has the music speed adjusted, but not pitch, so the soundtrack is lower, but plays at normal rate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:14 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 3968
Zelda 2 has link's vertical movement sped up, but not his horizontal movement.

_________________
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19334
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
DRW wrote:
Now I'm asking which actual games (not homebrew, but the commercial games) changed anything for their PAL conversion and what exactly they changed.

Now I'm confused. Which did you mean? From least to most strict:
  1. "Commercial" literally means an item in commerce, which in the case of NES games means sold on cartridge.
  2. "Not homebrew" means first published before 1997.
  3. "Official" means licensed by Nintendo.

Games included on the Action 53 compilations meet "commercial" but not "not homebrew" or "official". Games by Codemasters meet "commercial" and "not homebrew" but not "official".


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:25 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:36 am
Posts: 2982
Location: Tampere, Finland
Bregalad wrote:
SMB1 has 2 releases, one is 1:1 identical to NTSC, and the second has music speed, pitch but also game play speed adjusted, which is probably the only officially released NES game with gameplay speed adjusted.

Are you sure about the NTSC SMB being released for PAL consoles? First time I hear about that.

_________________
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: kkfos.aspekt.fi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7312
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
No. I'm pretty sure that this was in Bootgod database but it's down at the moment. Check the database in wayback archive and you should find early PAL version with the NTSC ROM on them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5891
Location: Canada
Rainbow Islands got a completely different port for the PAL and NTSC versions on NES.

Battletoads' PAL version fixes the 2 player bug with the Clinger Winger level, but I don't think there are any other changes (i.e. game just runs slower). The Japanese version of Battletoads actually makes a whole bunch of changes for difficulty (always start with 5 lives, the hardest section of each level made easier, etc.).

Dragon's Lair actually plays slower in the NTSC version, which is unusual. There's some other cosmetic changes too, I think.

Blaster Master's PAL version reportedly has a bunch of bugs the NTSC one doesn't. There's TASes that exploit this. This might be the result of trying to adjust speeds for the PAL version; might be one to take a further look at?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:08 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:36 am
Posts: 2982
Location: Tampere, Finland
rainwarrior wrote:
Dragon's Lair actually plays slower in the NTSC version, which is unusual. There's some other cosmetic changes too, I think.

Yeah, I think they were trying to save money. The NTSC version uses UxROM (=> CHR-RAM), whereas the PAL and Japanese versions use MMC3 (with CHR-ROM). PAL version has got a bigger ROM and extra transitional screens between levels also.

_________________
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: kkfos.aspekt.fi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 7:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:04 pm
Posts: 950
DRW wrote:
No. Last time I wanted to know what I can do for my game to adjust it to PAL.
It's just general curiosity what different things were done in real games.

That's what the other topic had drifted to, though.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1510
tepples wrote:
Now I'm confused. Which did you mean?

In general, I mean games that were sold by actual companies back when the NES was current. No homebrew/"doing it for the love and passion" stuff because I'm interested in the way things were done apart from the knowledge of this community here.

Yes, I know that today's games on cartridges are commercial as well and that companies might be behind it. But they're still created by people like us with access to countless documentation on the internet in a time when the NES doesn't get sold anymore.

I was talking about the PAL solutions in companies that developed for the NES back in the day, under "real world conditions".

Myask wrote:
DRW wrote:
No. Last time I wanted to know what I can do for my game to adjust it to PAL.
It's just general curiosity what different things were done in real games.

That's what the other topic had drifted to, though.

Not really. Some names like "Super Mario Bros." or "Turrican" were thrown around, but you cannot really find a list of the PAL-adjusted NES games in that thread.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:39 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Posts: 19334
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
DRW wrote:
In general, I mean games that were sold by actual companies back when the NES was current.

So 1. commercial NES games 2. published before 1997 with or without a license from Nintendo, with 3. separate versions for NTSC and PAL regions where 4. the PAL version has faster movement.

I'm not aware of such a list. You could try asking the collectors what they know about the topic. Or if you want to build your own list, I'd recommend first investigating games developed by Codemasters and published by Camerica.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 7:48 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1510
tepples wrote:
So 1. commercial NES games 2. published before 1997 with or without a license from Nintendo, with 3. separate versions for NTSC and PAL regions where 4. the PAL version has faster movement.

Or, to tell it in an easier way: What did the developers back in the day do to adjust their games to PAL, apart from the music?

And no, this time it's not a question to find a game that I like for my collection, like with the female protagonist. This one is really just a question about programming techniques, so no need to enumerate a list of requirements.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 10:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:35 pm
Posts: 3968
Cosmic Spacehead has region detection.
In NTSC mode, the game runs at normal speed.
In PAL mode, it alternates between running 1 frame of game logic and running 2 frames of game logic, for an effective game speed of 75FPS.
In Dendy mode, the game is unplayable with servere graphics glitches since the game thinks it's a PAL console.

_________________
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group