Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
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Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
I tried several of the links to NES palettes (.pal files) on this board, and they seem to be broken...
Specifically, the links to some of FirebrandX's palettes, and Kizul's 'definitive' palette. (I know that FirebrandX has his own website, but the files there are much different than they were a year ago).
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13555
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13252
Wouldn't it make sense to have some of the better palettes stored here? Somewhere.
EDIT: the link on page 3 of the Kizul Palette, where he changed a few things, not the link on page 2 with the original palette. The one that starts...*EDIT: aaaaaaand that's done now. and goes to a .cx Christmas Islands website.
Specifically, the links to some of FirebrandX's palettes, and Kizul's 'definitive' palette. (I know that FirebrandX has his own website, but the files there are much different than they were a year ago).
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=13555
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13252
Wouldn't it make sense to have some of the better palettes stored here? Somewhere.
EDIT: the link on page 3 of the Kizul Palette, where he changed a few things, not the link on page 2 with the original palette. The one that starts...*EDIT: aaaaaaand that's done now. and goes to a .cx Christmas Islands website.
Last edited by dougeff on Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES
Re: Broken Palette Links
I largely maintain (with the help of others) an archive of all the NES palettes I can find on the emulation wiki. All past and present FBX palettes are there, along with the Kizul palettes.
http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index ... e#Download
The Kizul palette on page 3 is included (note the modification date of the file and the post on page 3).
http://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index ... e#Download
The Kizul palette on page 3 is included (note the modification date of the file and the post on page 3).
Re: Broken Palette Links
Thank you for posting that. Very interesting.
I don't know which one I like best (for accuracy), but somehow they all seem a little wrong. Kizul's palette comes pretty close. I think I'm going to have to just make my own. I know, I know, every TV is different. I'm weird like that.
I don't know which one I like best (for accuracy), but somehow they all seem a little wrong. Kizul's palette comes pretty close. I think I'm going to have to just make my own. I know, I know, every TV is different. I'm weird like that.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES
Re: Broken Palette Links
I've gone and edited the heck out of the Kizul palette, using a very high tech device called 'my eyes'. This looks right to me.
Compared to my CRT TV, with the brightness turned to about 35%.
Compared to my CRT TV, with the brightness turned to about 35%.
Last edited by dougeff on Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES
Re: Broken Palette Links
Notable difference to the Kizul Definitive palette, all the 2x colors have been lightened, especially around 27-28. This is why...
(note, I did gamma correct the photo of my TV in both).
(note, I did gamma correct the photo of my TV in both).
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES
Re: Broken Palette Links
And, 22...well, really all the blues...01/11/21/31 02/12/22/32, have been shifted in hue slightly.
This seems more appropriate to me.
This seems more appropriate to me.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES
- Firebrandx
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:20 am
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
Sorry to necro an old thread, but I've been recently made aware of Kizul's claims that anyone who uses pure black for all the black palette entries is in error. I take great offense to that for a very specific reason:
A properly calibrated CRT (or PVM for that matter) will NOT show a difference in ANY of the black palette entries. In order to see any difference, you have to turn the brightness WAY up, washing out the rest of the picture. So I didn't make all the black entries pure black "in error", I made them that way because THAT'S how they appear on a calibrated CRT monitor. There's no getting around that, and if Kizul thinks you need off-blacks for better accuracy, he's sadly mistaken.
Entries like 0D fall well below the expected voltage for pure black, and in fact will glitch out certain models of CRTs as it effectively appears as a blanking period. Nintendo even issued a memo NOT to use this entry as a result. So note the games that use it are primarily unlicensed games (because they didn't get that memo).
A properly calibrated CRT (or PVM for that matter) will NOT show a difference in ANY of the black palette entries. In order to see any difference, you have to turn the brightness WAY up, washing out the rest of the picture. So I didn't make all the black entries pure black "in error", I made them that way because THAT'S how they appear on a calibrated CRT monitor. There's no getting around that, and if Kizul thinks you need off-blacks for better accuracy, he's sadly mistaken.
Entries like 0D fall well below the expected voltage for pure black, and in fact will glitch out certain models of CRTs as it effectively appears as a blanking period. Nintendo even issued a memo NOT to use this entry as a result. So note the games that use it are primarily unlicensed games (because they didn't get that memo).
Last edited by Firebrandx on Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
Help text from 240p Test Suite, for comparison (with my emphasis):
The PLUGE (picture line-up generation equipment) pattern is used to adjust the TV's "brightness" or black level.If you can see the line between $0D and $0F, it's washed out.
The inner bars are a signal level slightly lower than standard black, which causes some TVs to distort or even lose sync. The outer bars are the darkest mix of colors the NES can show.
Adjust brightness until the outer bars are clearly visible and inner bars are not.
- Firebrandx
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:20 am
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
Yep. I wish I had contact info for this Kizul character so I could school him on how black levels work on CRTs.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
Different TVs do different things depending on the range of brightnesses on-screen.
Rainwarrior (I think?) mentioned that his TV automatically brightens the whole screen so that the {0 IRE black that is color $3f} becomes brighter if any {-14 IRE color $0D} is on-screen.
Also, personally, I have never seen a CRT TV that emits absolutely zero light when displaying nominal black.
Rainwarrior (I think?) mentioned that his TV automatically brightens the whole screen so that the {0 IRE black that is color $3f} becomes brighter if any {-14 IRE color $0D} is on-screen.
Also, personally, I have never seen a CRT TV that emits absolutely zero light when displaying nominal black.
- Firebrandx
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:20 am
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
That's because they were never designed to emit non-zero light even with no signal. The point being that if you send a black level too low a voltage, some CRTs will lose sync as a result. Nintendo realized this and issued a memo to all licensed companies to stop using 0D as a result.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
I'm really not clear what point you think you're making?
$0D is bad, because large horizontal runs of it can cause certain TVs to lose sync, but $0D is also blacker than 0IRE and real-world CRT TVs will display this (because the other "blacks" are really "dark grey")
Also there's a number of licensed games that used $0D too.
$0D is bad, because large horizontal runs of it can cause certain TVs to lose sync, but $0D is also blacker than 0IRE and real-world CRT TVs will display this (because the other "blacks" are really "dark grey")
Also there's a number of licensed games that used $0D too.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
The point is that a properly calibrated TV won't show $0D as noticeably darker than $0F, despite that $0D's signal level is lower, because calibration would cause luma signal levels less than the 0 point to be clipped to 0.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
Except that's not true! No CRT TV I've ever seen displays 0 IRE as Really Black, and so -14 IRE has always been Even Darker ... as long as it doesn't lose sync.
Re: Broken Palette Links / and another Palette Choice
The screen itself isn't pitch black even when off. My TV has a dark gray color. I think that is what Kizul is seeing.
Though I do own a modern TV that is nearly black when off, it is a flatscreen.
Though I do own a modern TV that is nearly black when off, it is a flatscreen.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES