It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:49 am

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 7320
Location: Chexbres, VD, Switzerland
Wow, I do not like FPS as games but I have to say it looks AMAZING ! Much better than the older version !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:30 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 474
Location: Denmark (PAL)
Wow, really. I can't wait to see this stuff running in actual NES code. It's above and beyond anything I imagined possible on this system. Kudos, tokumaru.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10173
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Bregalad wrote:
Wow, I do not like FPS as games but I have to say it looks AMAZING ! Much better than the older version !

Haha I honestly wasn't expecting a positive reaction from you of all people, considering your opinions about past raycasters, and specially the fact that the vertical resolution in this new version had to be reduced in order to fit everything I wanted in under 256 tiles! I did increase the overall viewport size to compensate for this though, and this compromise also allowed me to increase the horizontal texture resolution, so in the end it was probably a good trade off.

I guess this just goes to show that a little polish goes a long way in making something technologically limited look more appealing. And this is still using boring test textures, colors, and has no discernible objects, so I expect the final result, that'll have a much more cohesive design, to look particularly more engaging!

Thanks for the overall positive feedback, guys! I'm glad to know I'm not crazy for trying to code something so absurd for the NES, and that even though there are compromises that have to be made, you still think this is worth making.

I'll be porting this to the NES during the next few days and I'll let you know how it goes. There shouldn't be any problems, seeing as the JavaScript logic is pretty much the same that'll go into the ROM, all the data tables (and there are *many* look-up tables!) are the same and such, I just have to make the multiplications as fast as possible and implement a pipeline for buffering the VRAM updates.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10173
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Pokun wrote:
Besides an FPS, I imagine it could make a cool dungeon crawler.

That's a good idea, but since that's a type of game I never had much contact with, I wouldn't be able to design a game of this kind myself. I'd probably have to work with someone else to accomplish something off this nature.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:06 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:29 am
Posts: 474
Location: Denmark (PAL)
Even with some experience, I'd say making a solid FPS game is at least as difficult, if in fact not much more difficult. You have to design something that works well with the technical limitations that you have, and without the low framerate being an annoyance. Wolfenstein 3D is "more advanced" than this, and is still so limited gameplay-wise, that it becomes repetitive extremely fast. Doom, on the other hand, is IMO a masterpiece - but I wouldn't want to play it as an NES raycaster.

I don't think a dungeon crawler RPG is necessarily the best way to go, although it would be an obvious choice - something inbetween that's still somewhat slow and tactical would also be a pretty good idea. When working with limitations such as these, it's important to design something that makes proper use of the unique 3D perspective for gameplay purposes (something Doom actually does better than most newer FPS games), rather than simply working in spite of it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:43 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Osaka, Japan
And I was happy that I got my 2d shadow casting thing working. :lol:
This thing is in a whole another dimension! :shock:

This has to be the most technically advanced thing on the NES so far no?
Really impressive work! I hope you manage to complete your project :)

_________________
tempus edax rerum


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:22 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10173
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Sumez wrote:
You have to design something that works well with the technical limitations that you have, and without the low framerate being an annoyance.

Wolfenstein 3D on the SNES almost fails due to the low framerate. I'm kinda considering that my threshold.

Quote:
Wolfenstein 3D is "more advanced" than this

It certainly looks better due to the higher resolution, color count, and framerate, but it lacks floor tiling and head tilting, both elements that could be used to improve the gameplay. Floor tiling can be used to represent dangers such as acid/lava rivers and bridges you might have to activate in order to reach the other side, for example. Bottomless pits are also possible.

Quote:
and is still so limited gameplay-wise, that it becomes repetitive extremely fast. Doom, on the other hand, is IMO a masterpiece - but I wouldn't want to play it as an NES raycaster.

Sure, the challenge of making something engaging under all these constraints is definitely present, but I'm confident I can come up with something fun.

rikami wrote:
This has to be the most technically advanced thing on the NES so far no?

The funny thing is that this uses the NES hardware in a very standard way, there's no crazy bankswitching, raster effects, forced blanking, none of that. The trick is all in making the math fit, and since I've never been particularly good with math, I'm taking this as a compliment! :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1517
tokumaru wrote:
but instead of making the entire game have a single theme, I plan on paying homage to different first person shooters of the 90's by having various worlds based on different themes. Another thing I consider important is that game doesn't take itself too seriously, so even the blockiness of the graphics (and possibly other constraints) will be acknowledged in-game and justified by the story.

Well, it is your game and your decision, but if you ask me, I would advise against this.

I would prefer a straight, serious first person shooter, not some self-aware tongue-in-cheek half parody/half hommage game.

To me, it's much more retro if you design a shooter that looks like if someone actually made this on the NES at a time when "Wolfenstein 3D" was popular, as if this was actually created in the final days of the NES. A game that can stand for itself, so that you can say:
Now the NES has its very own FPS, not just in a cheap ersatz way like "Operation Wolf", but a real FPS.

But a game that specifically references famous existing games as an hommage and makes fun of itself regarding the technical limitations? Meh. Not really the theme that I would prefer for this genre.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Posts: 10173
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
DRW wrote:
Well, it is your game and your decision, but if you ask me, I would advise against this.

Too bad you didn't like the idea, but I have my reasons to follow this route.

Quote:
To me, it's much more retro if you design a shooter that looks like if someone actually made this on the NES at a time when "Wolfenstein 3D" was popular, as if this was actually created in the final days of the NES.

But then it's just more of the same, and with a severe technical disadvantage compared to the competition. I'd rather acknowledge what the game is, which's a piece of software made in 2017 for a badly outdated machine paying homage to a type of game that doesn't really exist anymore.

Quote:
A game that can stand for itself, so that you can say:
Now the NES has its very own FPS, not just in a cheap ersatz way like "Operation Wolf", but a real FPS.

It will still be that, hopefully, regardless of the excuse presented in the manual and/or cutscenes to justify the shooting of bad guys in maze-like pseudo-3D levels.

Quote:
But a game that specifically references famous existing games as an hommage and makes fun of itself regarding the technical limitations? Meh. Not really the theme that I would prefer for this genre.

Nothing will be directly referenced or stolen from existing games, just the level themes will be loosely based on typical tropes of old FPS games. Much like platformers often have ice levels, lava levels, sky levels, underground levels, and so on, I'll have city levels, space levels, hell levels, prison levels, cemetery levels, and such. 60+ levels of prison breaking can get old fast, so this is a way to break the monotony and make the most out of what the engine has to offer, because I can play with the different color modes I have set up for walls, floors and ceilings.

As for acknowledging the technical limitations, I felt like it was important to address the fact that this is targeting a much more limited platform than the games that inspired it did, and make it clear that this is not trying to be the ultimate first person shooter, but just a fun take on the genre.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 9:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm
Posts: 1517
tokumaru wrote:
But then it's just more of the same

Well, the defining characteristic would be that it's for the NES. :mrgreen:

It's the same with a fighting game: If the NES ever has a fighting game, I would prefer a game with martial artists and a fighting tournament, not a game with aliens and robots and some outlandish story.

tokumaru wrote:
Nothing will be directly referenced or stolen from existing games, just the level themes will be loosely based on typical tropes of old FPS games. Much like platformers often have ice levels, lava levels, sky levels, underground levels, and so on, I'll have city levels, space levels, hell levels, prison levels, cemetery levels, and such.

O.k., that's something different then. The way you originally said it, it sounded more like you want to do a "Wolfenstein 3D" level where you fight nazis, then some moon space station level referencing "Doom" etc.
Or, to compare it to platformers: As if you wanted a "Mario" level, a "Castlevania" level, a "Mega Man" level etc.

But yeah, different general level themes are totally cool. As long as the story is somewhat consistent.

tokumaru wrote:
that this is not trying to be the ultimate first person shooter, but just a fun take on the genre.

Well, until another, better one comes around, it would be the ultimate NES FPS.

_________________
Available now: My game "City Trouble".
Website: https://megacatstudios.com/products/city-trouble
Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
Gameplay: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
German Retro Gamer article: http://i67.tinypic.com/345o108.jpg


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 1:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:36 am
Posts: 2983
Location: Tampere, Finland
Awesome!

_________________
Download STREEMERZ for NES from fauxgame.com! — Some other stuff I've done: kkfos.aspekt.fi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:04 pm
Posts: 950
Lovely.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:01 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Seattle
I've long admired your raycasting demo. Excited to see something coming of it!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:19 pm 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:04 am
Posts: 3488
Location: Indianapolis
I love it, seeing texture on the ground and the head tilting is really awesome. I thought it was already as good as it gets, but no.

Do you remember a long time ago when I asked about using your raycasting engine in Garage Cart #2 for something fun? I'd still like to do that, I could really use some inspiration to get that long-languished project moving again.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 6:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:03 pm
Posts: 5899
Location: Canada
Hey, I don't have much to add for commentary, but this is cool. Have occasionally been peeking at your old raycasting demos for a long time.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group