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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:29 am 
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At the very least, wikipedia is riddled with sources of weak or no merit. It's even worse in small, non-english versions. Lack of citing everywhere, and all too often it's an obviously summarized, truncated, and freely interpreted/winged translation/mistranslation of the english version.

Then again, a traditional dictionary is completely oblique. Is an article drawn from research? a single source? how much of the authors' interpretation has bled into the description without telling so?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:13 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
Then again, a traditional dictionary is completely oblique.

Or opaque?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:54 am 
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:oops: I must've confused those two for my whole life.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:03 am 
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nitro2k01 wrote:
The point was not to criticize FrankenGraphics, but the use of the expression itself. It's not directed at any single person. I only quoted his post as a reference of what inspired me to post the rant. I first thought about making a quick remark in that thread but then decided to break it out to its own thread, as that's likely what tepples would have done anyway, if it had generated any significant amount of discussion there.

Yes, this is one of the least impolite ways to do it. I tried to clarify that but I realize I opened with the accusation of impoliteness. :S


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:25 am 
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Just to assure; I didn't take it as personal critique either. :) Speaking of critique, i'll take the opportunity to say that i'm perfectly fine with anyone correcting my language on these boards, if they want to.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:40 am 
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Well, if you are complaining about that then what about people using english words in other languages ?
I've heard for example often people saying in a french language conversation "it's obvious" using the english word obvious even though there is a word which is 100% equivalent of it's meaning in french language - but they use an english word to sound "young and cool", it's extremely annoying.

I am however not complaining about importing english words if there is no direct equivalent, but this should really be avoided when there is a direct equivalent.

Another thing which is a bit annoying is people writing down mails writing exactly what they'd say if they were talking instead of using more proper language/grammar. Is it really that complicated to use proper structured sentences when writing something down ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:35 am 
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I'm not entirely sure it's just to sound young and cool. In anthropology, the term "creolization" has been extended to work as an analogy for the mixing of languages and cultures when meeting on a new platform. Just replace "the new world" with "world wide web", on which english is the dominant language as far as people from different nations talking to each other is concerned.

In teenage and early 20s years, i heard the phrase "men obv" which is a sweded version of "well, obv", which in turn of course is a chat abbreviation for "well, obviously". Overusage of this phrase is perhaps something you'd tie to youthful edgyness, so it's not the best example, but my point is that we're seeing a creolization of sorts where chat speak, english, and native languages are cross-pollinating. The effect should be most recognizeable in other languages since english is the main mode of communication.

It's not wrong in itself, it's just informal. Though ever so often, use of informal language often leak into formal use, eventually. In the early 90's, the swedish state made a fruitless effort to standardize the term "elpost" (meaning electric post) and insist state employees use the word, which sits better in swedish, but as it turned out, people preferred saying and writing anything but this specific variation. E-mail, emejl, mejl, epost, e-post. Throughout the 90s, you could also see people writing/saying ebrev (e-letter), but i think that use has ceased completely. These have since long been so integrated in everyday use that "elpost" sounds outright wrong and confusing.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:27 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
Another thing which is a bit annoying is people writing down mails writing exactly what they'd say if they were talking instead of using more proper language/grammar. Is it really that complicated to use proper structured sentences when writing something down ?

Yes, if the intent is not to sound pretentious, particularly when the recipient reads the mail aloud.

The other reason is the difficulty of revising text on a smartphone or tablet computer not connected to an external keyboard. I don't know whether other users experience this, but when I write "proper structured sentences", I often don't fill in a paragraph from start to finish. Instead, I type phrases as they come to me, moving the insertion point to where in the sentence they belong with Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right on a computer's keyboard and occasionally rearranging them using Shift+Ctrl+Left to select text, Ctrl+X, move insertion point, Ctrl+V. When rearranging a sentence requires changing a word's inflection (such as copy vs. copies) or derivation (such as revise vs. revision), Ctrl+Left and Ctrl+Right make moving the insertion point to the end of a word fairly consistent. But touch-driven mobile devices make it a chore to move the insertion point, particularly to the start or end of a word because the space character's glyph is so narrow. This makes going back and editing what I've written less practical. Other users may adapt by typing in the same stream-of-consciousness mode in which they talk or even using the operating system's speech-to-text input method.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:34 am 
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Quote:
Yes, if the intent is not to sound pretentious, particularly when the recipient reads the mail aloud.

In French language the difference between formal writing and informal talking is huge, probably more than in English language (although I could be wrong - I am unfamiliar with spoken English). Using formal language when writing a letter or e-mail is expected, it would never sound "pretentious". I'm not talking about texting but about true, important mails.

Quote:
The other reason is the difficulty of revising text on a smartphone or tablet computer not connected to an external keyboard.

Those devices are unsuited for writing anyway. They are meant for texting and/or "checking if there's something new" mainly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:44 am 
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Though some people have nothing but a pad. Especially some kids and teenagers. I even saw people taking notes on pads at university. How they manage to keep the pace or how that could be better than pen and paper, i don't know. You'd need to write your papers on a regular computer later.

iOS could easily have had letter/word left/right jump keys in the white field right above the keyboard, but it doesn't. Such a miss, IMO.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:58 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
Quote:
The other reason is the difficulty of revising text on a smartphone or tablet computer not connected to an external keyboard.

Those devices are unsuited for writing anyway.

Someone who owns only a device "unsuited for writing" must either use a device "unsuited for writing" for writing or not write at all.

Bregalad wrote:
They are meant for texting and/or "checking if there's something new" mainly.

Then what's the appropriate device on which to reply when "checking if there's something new" returns "There is something new, and I want to reply, but I won't be home for an hour or more"? Or "There is something new, and I want to reply, but the only PC to which I have ready access is at a library, and the closest library branch doesn't open until Monday, which is two days from now" (source: ACPL.info)? A solution involve buying a home PC might not be practical for children under 16, who are legally ineligible to work as an employee in most occupations (source: child labor laws of the several U.S. states).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:30 am 
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Agreed. Especially with the word 'citing'-- if you haven't provided enough information to unambiguously identify the source, that's not a proper citation.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:05 pm 
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Here's another example I came across today in a video about Nintendo Switch docks.

"If you'd like to try to do some detective work yourself, I'll leave the SlimPort wiki in the description."

Does this mean the Wikipedia article on something called SlimPort, or is this a wiki set up to discuss video standards or the endeavour of getting video out etc to work on the Switch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pds1nwSlBvA&t=266

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