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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:53 am 
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Yes, I know you can't flash that game onto the Kazzo (or you do, and nothing happens) due to the SA-1 chip from the actual game cartridge. In any case, I am wondering if there is a rom where someone successfully removed that restriction somehow, so as to enable transfer from a Super Mario RPG rom unto the Kazzo?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:15 pm 
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The kazzo is the USB programmer device. So putting a game "on the kazzo" doesn't make sense. I assume you mean use the kazzo to flash a SA-1 game onto one of our flash boards? Or perhaps onto an SA-1 board..? Either way our boards don't support any expansion chips, and original SA-1 boards can't be reflashed as they have mask roms which can't be erased or reprogrammed.

I suppose if you replaced the mask roms with flash roms, and wired everything up properly the kazzo could reprogram the flash on a SA-1 donor. But I won't be able give guidance for wiring, nor software/firmware support as promoting destruction of original carts (other than for research/science) is against my religion. Taking on a task like this would be considered a hack and you'd have to figure everything out for yourself. I am releasing a new software and firmware build for all versions of the kazzo/inlretro programmer soon though. It's open source and will be easier to hack for accomplishing things like this if you're savvy enough.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:41 pm 
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infiniteneslives wrote:
The kazzo is the USB programmer device. So putting a game "on the kazzo" doesn't make sense. I assume you mean use the kazzo to flash a SA-1 game onto one of our flash boards? Or perhaps onto an SA-1 board..? Either way our boards don't support any expansion chips, and original SA-1 boards can't be reflashed as they have mask roms which can't be erased or reprogrammed.

I suppose if you replaced the mask roms with flash roms, and wired everything up properly the kazzo could reprogram the flash on a SA-1 donor. But I won't be able give guidance for wiring, nor software/firmware support as promoting destruction of original carts (other than for research/science) is against my religion. Taking on a task like this would be considered a hack and you'd have to figure everything out for yourself. I am releasing a new software and firmware build for all versions of the kazzo/inlretro programmer soon though. It's open source and will be easier to hack for accomplishing things like this if you're savvy enough.



Yes, I was talking about the boards (not the Kazzo itself). My apologies if I was unclear in my statement/question. I wouldn't use actual official cartridges, as that makes little sense. At that point, might as well buy duplicate copies of the actual games lol. I was referring more about creating backups using the Kazzo. Older cartridges could become more susceptible to breaking one way or another (despite the chances being low in and of themselves - I've only had one game so far in my collection (NBA Jam) which has degraded, mostly the intro screen. But why take the chance with the best games in a collection? Not worth it of course).

Concerning the new Software and Firmware, will it include the one which I believe was posted on neogaf years ago (can't seem to find it however), which at the time had an interface that allowed only SNES flashing. Or will the one you are working in be as easy as that one in terms of installing the software/firmware, with support for both SNES and NES?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:10 pm 
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mades wrote:
Concerning the new Software and Firmware, will it include the one which I believe was posted on neogaf years ago (can't seem to find it however), which at the time had an interface that allowed only SNES flashing. Or will the one you are working in be as easy as that one in terms of installing the software/firmware, with support for both SNES and NES?


Yeah I think neogaf is closed now or something IDK.. The new firmware and software are designed to support dumping, flashing, of rom & battery saves of both NES/famciom and SNES. However the version of your kazzo will significantly affect your ability to physically connect original SNES carts.

Early (yellow colored, purchased prior to ~fall 2016) kazzos the SNES connector pitch design makes it very difficult to get original SNES cartridges properly mated/connected. It may even be impossible to mate well with SNES boards with expansion tabs like SA-1 boards. Because of that, those hardware versions will effectively only ever support flashing our boards.

Recent (orange colored, purchased after ~fall 2016) kazzos made some layout updates that allow proper mating of 46pin original SNES carts for dumping and battery save backup/programming. However the improvement made inserting carts with extra connector tabs like SA-1 impossible.

If there's significant request I may offer pass through adapters which resolve the physical limitations above. However they will still lack the electrical connections to the expansion tabs which may be required to dump or access save ram on expansion chips boards like SA-1.

The real fix for all this is included in my latest inlretro design which replaces the original kazzo device. It has a legit 62pin SNES connector with proper pitch, and electrical connections to all the expansion pins. It also adds support for GBA, gameboy, genesis, & N64 and will offer enclosure options finally. I'm pushing for both the updated hardware and software release by the end of March. On my homepage you can sign up for a newletter which will provide email notifications when new hardware and software builds release. Initial releases aren't expected to support dumping or save backups for expansion chip SNES boards, likely to only support Hi/LoROM at launch. But supporting those features with future updates is an early goal.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:48 pm 
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infiniteneslives wrote:
mades wrote:
Concerning the new Software and Firmware, will it include the one which I believe was posted on neogaf years ago (can't seem to find it however), which at the time had an interface that allowed only SNES flashing. Or will the one you are working in be as easy as that one in terms of installing the software/firmware, with support for both SNES and NES?


Yeah I think neogaf is closed now or something IDK.. The new firmware and software are designed to support dumping, flashing, of rom & battery saves of both NES/famciom and SNES. However the version of your kazzo will significantly affect your ability to physically connect original SNES carts.

Early (yellow colored, purchased prior to ~fall 2016) kazzos the SNES connector pitch design makes it very difficult to get original SNES cartridges properly mated/connected. It may even be impossible to mate well with SNES boards with expansion tabs like SA-1 boards. Because of that, those hardware versions will effectively only ever support flashing our boards.

Recent (orange colored, purchased after ~fall 2016) kazzos made some layout updates that allow proper mating of 46pin original SNES carts for dumping and battery save backup/programming. However the improvement made inserting carts with extra connector tabs like SA-1 impossible.

If there's significant request I may offer pass through adapters which resolve the physical limitations above. However they will still lack the electrical connections to the expansion tabs which may be required to dump or access save ram on expansion chips boards like SA-1.

The real fix for all this is included in my latest inlretro design which replaces the original kazzo device. It has a legit 62pin SNES connector with proper pitch, and electrical connections to all the expansion pins. It also adds support for GBA, gameboy, genesis, & N64 and will offer enclosure options finally. I'm pushing for both the updated hardware and software release by the end of March. On my homepage you can sign up for a newletter which will provide email notifications when new hardware and software builds release. Initial releases aren't expected to support dumping or save backups for expansion chip SNES boards, likely to only support Hi/LoROM at launch. But supporting those features with future updates is an early goal.




I was wondering something, what exactly do you mean by, " It may even be impossible to mate well with SNES boards with expansion tabs like SA-1 boards"?

Also, do you have screenshots of the firmware/software install process? I'd like to see what you've been up to. I have the old Kazzo, so I'd be curious to know what the new process would look like.

Glad to know you'll be adding support for other consoles. Makes things even better :)


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:57 pm 
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Quote:
I was wondering something, what exactly do you mean by, " It may even be impossible to mate well with SNES boards with expansion tabs like SA-1 boards"?
There are lots of complications and hard for me to explain with words, and there's a number of variations we've had over the years. Attach a photo of your kazzo and I can better explain your specific device's limitations. In the end for full functionality with expansion chip boards you'll likely need the new hardware design.

Quote:
Also, do you have screenshots of the firmware/software install process? I'd like to see what you've been up to. I have the old Kazzo, so I'd be curious to know what the new process would look like.
The current readme explains the firmware update process, it's fairly easy to do. I'd like to make an update to everything at some point where the software automatically updates the firmware for you so long as you approve it. If you have problems when the time comes to update just let me know.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:02 pm 
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infiniteneslives wrote:
Quote:
I was wondering something, what exactly do you mean by, " It may even be impossible to mate well with SNES boards with expansion tabs like SA-1 boards"?
There are lots of complications and hard for me to explain with words, and there's a number of variations we've had over the years. Attach a photo of your kazzo and I can better explain your specific device's limitations. In the end for full functionality with expansion chip boards you'll likely need the new hardware design.

Quote:
Also, do you have screenshots of the firmware/software install process? I'd like to see what you've been up to. I have the old Kazzo, so I'd be curious to know what the new process would look like.
The current readme explains the firmware update process, it's fairly easy to do. I'd like to make an update to everything at some point where the software automatically updates the firmware for you so long as you approve it. If you have problems when the time comes to update just let me know.



I just realised, I am not sure what colour my Kazzo is. It looks yellow and orange (could be the lighting in the apartment). So... not sure which one I have. I took another look at it, and it could be orange? I couldn't find my receipt in my inbox, so I am not sure when exactly I bought it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:17 pm 
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It's what I was referring to as orange.

Original SNES carts will plug into that one without removing the shell, and the pitch offset won't cause any issues. But there's no room for the side tabs of most expansion carts like the SA-1. Just try to plug in your SA-1 cart and you should be able to see what I mean.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:47 pm 
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infiniteneslives wrote:
It's what I was referring to as orange.

Original SNES carts will plug into that one without removing the shell, and the pitch offset won't cause any issues. But there's no room for the side tabs of most expansion carts like the SA-1. Just try to plug in your SA-1 cart and you should be able to see what I mean.



Oh, well good to know mine's orange then lol. I see what you mean, and I also realized that the pins are not retracted like the other ones. Never noticed that before.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:11 pm 
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mades wrote:
I also realized that the pins are not retracted like the other ones. Never noticed that before.


Do you mean the outer contact pins on the SNES connector? If so, it's not that they aren't 'retracted' they have bits of PCB FR4 wedged in the ends to align the SNES cart connector in perfect alignment to help get around the fact that the pitch differs, while still allowing carts to be inserted without removing the PCB from the cartridge shell.

BTW, don't remove those bits of PCB from the connector though. It'll be next to impossible to mate any cart in the proper location with out them. And either way an original SNES cart with expansion tabs on the connector won't fit in that socket without some crazy hack.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:38 pm 
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infiniteneslives wrote:
mades wrote:
I also realized that the pins are not retracted like the other ones. Never noticed that before.


Do you mean the outer contact pins on the SNES connector? If so, it's not that they aren't 'retracted' they have bits of PCB FR4 wedged in the ends to align the SNES cart connector in perfect alignment to help get around the fact that the pitch differs, while still allowing carts to be inserted without removing the PCB from the cartridge shell.

BTW, don't remove those bits of PCB from the connector though. It'll be next to impossible to mate any cart in the proper location with out them. And either way an original SNES cart with expansion tabs on the connector won't fit in that socket without some crazy hack.



Yeah those. Don't worry, I won't touch them at all lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:09 am 
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@inl
Are you planning to provide N64 boards, or is it compatible with an existing provider's? Or just for save handling?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:53 am 
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Providing N64 boards is on the todo list. I can't provide a good estimate as to when. Goal is to make simpler DMG, GBA, & sega genesis/MD boards asap. Hopefully I can get a N64 design going by the end of 2018. It's already looking to be a crazy year with several massive projects going on so I can't make any promises, but that what I would like to see.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:18 pm 
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That's great news! No matter if it takes a bit, it will also take time to make some software ;)

Boards able to run most commercial games are naturally more expensive than a barebones one. I had a brief chat with Retrostage on what such a homebrew-targeting board would have, and the summary was 32-128mb flash, 4/16k eeprom, and fixed pal+ntsc compatible cic. He said targeting the controller pak for saving would be better, but given how cheap I found the eeproms on aliexpress, and how many n64 gamers do not have the pak, eeprom should be cheaper than flash or battery+sram or fram.

tl;dr please consider making a cheap, homebrew-targeting n64 board, even if such a board would only run a fraction of commercial n64 roms.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:33 pm 
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calima wrote:
tl;dr please consider making a cheap, homebrew-targeting n64 board, even if such a board would only run a fraction of commercial n64 roms.


Thanks for the input. I didn't realize there was a desire for something like this already.

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