It is currently Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:25 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 12
I've completed the Hi-Def NES installation on two top-loaders thus far. In both instances, the console was in good, working condition via RF before attempting the mod.

I own a Hakko desoldering gun so removing the CPU and PPU was painless. No vias or traces were harmed. I chose to remove transistor Q1 and install a bridge to retain analog output per Jason's guides. Both machines work beautifully via HDMI but neither has functioning RF.

When I power the console on with HDMI disconnected, I can see the orange light on the Hi-Def board start solid and then go to a rapid blink seconds later. The CRT, with a known-good RF box, shows solid black and no audio.

I know that the kit cannot display HDMI and RF simultaneously so that leads me to believe there is some logic to identify how it is connected to a display. If no HDMI is detected, the composite signal is routed through normal channels off the PPU.

Any thoughts?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am
Posts: 16
It's a long shot, but maybe it could be because of the most recent update for the Hi-Def NES kit? Perhaps try downgrading it to V2.25. I have noticed that several bugs have arisen when the new V3.01 update came out, both on HDMI and on analog output.

There were some good changes of course, but for me the V3.01 update did more harm than good.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 12
I have an Everdrive so it's worth a shot. This board came from the most recent batch so I believe 3.01 was installed by default. I'll check it out and report back.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 12
I downgraded to v2.25 and still didn't have any luck with the analog out.

I have three pairs of Rev-G CPU/PPU and to the best of my knowledge, they are working examples. I tried two of the three but still got the same result. I thought maybe I wasn't getting a clean connection between the chips and the headers used in the Hi-Def install. I tinned each leg of the CPU/PPU before remounting and found that the solid green screen was now a garbled mess. Clearly there was something going on there.

I'm hesitant to lift the headers to resolder the CPU/PPU in because of the danger of trace/via lift.

I tried to get video signal by pulling right off PPU pin 21 (grounded composite cable) but that doesn't work either.

My next step is to check continuity on each of the CPU/PPU pins to make sure it's making a solid connection.

For what it's worth, HDMI is working flawlessly. Absolutely no trouble to speak of.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:52 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am
Posts: 16
If the HDMI is working just fine, I say just buy another NES if you ever need to use analog RF/composite output. The latest update breaks some games on analog output anyway. With a stock NES, analog output won't have as many bugs as it would with the Hi-Def NES kit installed.

Either get a Front Loader NES or maybe even a cheap clone, for composite output instead of RF. There's some decent clones out there that don't have a horrible color palette and horrible sound, such as the Top Loader look-a-like "Zoga", and also the older revisions of the Retro Entertainment System are good too (the older revisions are in a box that don't have a game cartridge in the front box art).

I'd like to note that since you are on V2.25 now, FDS Metroid door sounds will work, but you no longer have the 4 new color palettes to choose from that are in V3.01. If you don't mind not having the four new color palettes (the original ones are only FCEUX/Beware's/Playchoice 10) and are a fan of FDS Metroid, then stick with V2.25.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 12
I'll admit this is one of those things that I basically want to figure out just because. I actually have several NES (front and top loaders) along with a period-correct CRT. Even that being said, I have no desire to play the Zapper games so the fact RF does not work on this particular top loader is not really a concern.

I've actually attempted the mod on two top loaders and both had the same result: beautiful HDMI but no RF out. Last night, I reversed the mod on one of the top loaders (reinstalled 7805 and CPU/PUU) and it fired right up and works as it should. This would strongly suggest the console itself was not the problem.

On the Hi Def machine, I've tried firing it up with all original components in place EXCEPT the kit's header pins. In other words, I simply reverted the machine to normal but mounted the CPU/PPU to header pins rather than directly to the mainboard.

No matter which CPU/PPU I use, I cannot get it to work. I get either a black screen, solid color screen, or static.

In this configuration, I also do not get video directly from PPU 21 or sound from CPU 1-2.

When I have the Hi-Def kit installed, I DO get video directly from PPU 21 but it's skewed and tumbles.

My theory:

Here's what Kevin has said about the analog switching capabilities of the Hi-Def NES:

kevtris wrote:
Unplugging HDMI switches the PPU/CPU over to use the NES mobo generated clock, and makes the PPU work in "passthrough" mode, so that the PPU works like it always did, generating composite video. In this mode, the FPGA's audio hardware still works, and is switched over to using the NES mobo clock too. In this mode, overclocking, menus, and everything else DO NOT WORK (except the audio as specified). If you want to turn audio chips on/off you must do this through HDMI.

When you plug/unplug the HDMI cable, it resets the NES. This is because the CPU would crash anyways during clock switchover. (And it makes the logistics of things impossible otherwise)


I don't think this is occuring in my example. I don't think the CPU/PPU are switching over to the NES clock (evidenced by the tumbling PPU 21 video) as designed.

As far as getting the console to work in 'original' mode, it HAS to be something to do with the chips not making good contact on the header pins or the header pins themselves. I checked VERY closely for damaged vias/traces and found none. Each solder joint (header pin -> NES) seems fine as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am
Posts: 16
MNiceGuy wrote:
I'll admit this is one of those things that I basically want to figure out just because. I actually have several NES (front and top loaders) along with a period-correct CRT. Even that being said, I have no desire to play the Zapper games so the fact RF does not work on this particular top loader is not really a concern.

I've actually attempted the mod on two top loaders and both had the same result: beautiful HDMI but no RF out. Last night, I reversed the mod on one of the top loaders (reinstalled 7805 and CPU/PUU) and it fired right up and works as it should. This would strongly suggest the console itself was not the problem.


Ah ok, right I forgot that you mod NES consoles for others, and that it's not just an isolated incident for yourself.

Yeah I have to admit this is beyond my knowledge besides my suggestion of downgrading to the older firmware. It sucks that there's so many different CPU & PPU variants that all cause different bugs between each other with the Hi-Def NES kit (despeckle and audio glitches for example). Your suggestion that it could be the soldering, I suppose go with your intuition.

MNiceGuy wrote:
In this configuration, I also do not get video directly from PPU 21 or sound from CPU 1-2.

When I have the Hi-Def kit installed, I DO get video directly from PPU 21 but it's skewed and tumbles.

When you plug/unplug the HDMI cable, it resets the NES. This is because the CPU would crash anyways during clock switchover. (And it makes the logistics of things impossible otherwise)

I don't think this is occuring in my example. I don't think the CPU/PPU are switching over to the NES clock (evidenced by the tumbling PPU 21 video) as designed.


Eh I might perhaps have one other suggestion. Maybe try installing the composite mod along with the Hi-Def NES? Although I'm not really sure how that could work out since pin 21 has to be lifted, perhaps add a switch to connect/disconnect pin 21 on the interposer? I don't know, but then again it'll probably just be the same result as trying to use the RF output. I'm just brainstorming at this point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2017 6:21 pm
Posts: 12
I was able to figure it out.

The problem lies in the PPU interposer. I got a couple kits in the mail Friday and decided to switch out the interposers on the top loader discussed above. Without changing anything else, I got clean RF out on the first try.

I then moved the top loader's interposers over to a front loader and sure enough, no RF. Composite produced sound but no picture. I swapped the PPU interposer on this front loader, without changing anything else, and both RF and composite worked perfectly.

The problematic interposer was pre-assembled but I can't find any evidence of a bad joint, bridge, damaged trace, damaged IC, etc. Either way, I think it's safe to call this mystery solved. At this point I need to either shoot and email to Jason or just sell a Hi-Def unit with no analog function (which I think is actually acceptable given the circumstances.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:44 am
Posts: 16
MNiceGuy wrote:
I was able to figure it out.

The problem lies in the PPU interposer. I got a couple kits in the mail Friday and decided to switch out the interposers on the top loader discussed above. Without changing anything else, I got clean RF out on the first try.

I then moved the top loader's interposers over to a front loader and sure enough, no RF. Composite produced sound but no picture. I swapped the PPU interposer on this front loader, without changing anything else, and both RF and composite worked perfectly.

The problematic interposer was pre-assembled but I can't find any evidence of a bad joint, bridge, damaged trace, damaged IC, etc.


Glad you got it figured out :) . Yeah who knows what the issue is then, but at least you singled it down to a bad interposer.

MNiceGuy wrote:
Either way, I think it's safe to call this mystery solved. At this point I need to either shoot and email to Jason or just sell a Hi-Def unit with no analog function (which I think is actually acceptable given the circumstances.


Perhaps there's people out there that wouldn't mind just analog audio output, like a headphone jack in the back of a Top Loader. But that'll probably lower the value of them. I'd email Jason.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group