Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

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Oziphantom
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Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Oziphantom » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:44 am

and releasing a game with this much lag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqPNpab5Y8g

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koitsu
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by koitsu » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:03 am

Seems OK to me, then again I come from a day where a 2.8MHz 65816 with no hardware sprites or screen pan/scroll capability (read: everything was software) was all you got.

WedNESday
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by WedNESday » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:24 am

koitsu wrote:Seems OK to me, then again I come from a day where a 2.8MHz 65816 with no hardware sprites or screen pan/scroll capability (read: everything was software) was all you got.
Tell me something. In those days, did you used to walk to work or did you ride on the back of a dinosaur?

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Dwedit
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Dwedit » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:51 am

WedNESday wrote:Tell me something. In those days, did you used to walk to work or did you ride on the back of a dinosaur?
I think you had to open the door and get on the floor.
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!

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dougeff
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by dougeff » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:51 am

I get that reference.

https://youtu.be/zYKupOsaJmk
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES

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dougeff
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by dougeff » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:54 am

BTW, I always thought that Nintendo could easily have put 8MHz chips and 4x the RAM in the original NES.

Computers in 1985 were that good (sometimes).

Edit, those were 68000 machines at 7-8. The 6502 computers in 1985 were 1-2 Mhz.

Edit 2, and the PC Engine didn't come out till 1987, with a 7Mhz 65c02.

So I guess I was off by 2 years and 1 Mhz.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES

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koitsu
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by koitsu » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:02 pm

The question is whether or not that would've been financially feasible for Nintendo. Their goal was to maximise profits while simultaneously minimising impact if the Famicom/NES flopped. It's not always a case of "just use a faster crystal" -- who knows if the Ricoh-developed CPU can even run stable at 8MHz. (Footnote: I'm dreading this subject because I suspect someone is going to start talking about overclocking their NES)

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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Garth » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:10 pm

Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502
For many years, all of them being made have been guaranteed for at least 14MHz, and the off-the-shelf ones usually top out around 25MHz, if the supporting parts can work at that speed. See WDC's data sheet at http://6502.org/documents/datasheets/wd ... 8_2018.pdf . WDC is the IP owner of the 65c02 technology, and they license it to companies that make ASICs (application-specific ICs, ie, custom ICs) for automotive, industrial, appliance, toy, and even life-support equipment, with a volume of over 100,000,000 units a year, although they're rather invisible since they're in ASICs. IOW, you won't find "6502" in the part number printed on them. These have I/O, timers, memory, and other support circuitry all onboard, not having to go outside the IC for those things like we have to with a bare 6502. The fastest of these is running over 200MHz (yes, two hundred MHz—not a typo). Mike Naberezny, owner of 6502.org, kind of doubted the sales volume numbers given by WDC, but then had the control IC from his modern VW's instrument cluster decapped last year (2018), and found, under the microscope, that the processor was a 65c02.
http://WilsonMinesCo.com/ lots of 6502 resources

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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by WedNESday » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:30 pm

dougeff wrote:I get that reference.

https://youtu.be/zYKupOsaJmk
A. It wasn't a 'reference'.

B. 'The uploader has not made this video available in your country.'

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rainwarrior
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by rainwarrior » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:04 pm

Dwedit made the reference, it was lyrics to the song you can't watch.

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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by ccovell » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:57 pm

Oziphantom wrote:and releasing a game with this much lag https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqPNpab5Y8g
Yes, not many PC-Engine / Turbografx games have noticeable slowdown, simply because of a really nice clock speed for a 65C02-like, and the remnants of an 8-bit game design philosophy. (ie: not a lot of rotating sprite monsters like in Gunstar Heroes, and not a lot of 3-D wireframe games.)

Part of the reason Bloody Wolf slows down is that it was an arcade port from hardware that used 2 CPUs identical to the PCE (HuC6280), so they had to make the gameplay AND sound code run on a single CPU for the home port. Also, I have a feeling that the programmers didn't make good, fast HSync interrupt routines, as the game slows down more when there is HSync line scrolling happening on-screen, like when wading through rivers.

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Drew Sebastino
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Drew Sebastino » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:36 pm

Metal Slug 2 says "hi" :lol:

Oziphantom
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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Oziphantom » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:47 pm

WedNESday wrote:
koitsu wrote:Seems OK to me, then again I come from a day where a 2.8MHz 65816 with no hardware sprites or screen pan/scroll capability (read: everything was software) was all you got.
Tell me something. In those days, did you used to walk to work or did you ride on the back of a dinosaur?
You have to remember that it was all self inflicted, he could have got an Amiga(hell even an ST), for less even ;) So he sadly had a machine from the company that was behind ;) Although to be fair he did buy the best computer they have ever made.

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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Oziphantom » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:53 pm

Garth wrote:
Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502
For many years, all of them being made have been guaranteed for at least 14MHz, and the off-the-shelf ones usually top out around 25MHz, if the supporting parts can work at that speed. See WDC's data sheet at http://6502.org/documents/datasheets/wd ... 8_2018.pdf . WDC is the IP owner of the 65c02 technology, and they license it to companies that make ASICs (application-specific ICs, ie, custom ICs) for automotive, industrial, appliance, toy, and even life-support equipment, with a volume of over 100,000,000 units a year, although they're rather invisible since they're in ASICs. IOW, you won't find "6502" in the part number printed on them. These have I/O, timers, memory, and other support circuitry all onboard, not having to go outside the IC for those things like we have to with a bare 6502. The fastest of these is running over 200MHz (yes, two hundred MHz—not a typo). Mike Naberezny, owner of 6502.org, kind of doubted the sales volume numbers given by WDC, but then had the control IC from his modern VW's instrument cluster decapped last year (2018), and found, under the microscope, that the processor was a 65c02.
A NMOS 6502 can do up to 4mhz(unofficially according to Mench; MOS shipped them up to C spec which is 3mhz rated), 8mhz is out of the question. Given the clock domains, 0.9, 1.8 or 3.5 are the easy ones to get, so 3.5 probably wasn't an option for them.

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Re: Imagine haveing a 7mhz 6502

Post by Pokun » Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:46 am

koitsu wrote:I come from a day where a 2.8MHz 65816 with no hardware sprites or screen pan/scroll capability (read: everything was software) was all you got.
I believe modern IBM-PC video cards STILL don't have hardware sprites and scroll.

I want my sprites! :)

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