NESMaker reviews?

You can talk about almost anything that you want to on this board.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
nesrocks
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by nesrocks » Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:26 am

He does everything backwards. The tool uses this insane assets format and doesn't take traditional CHR files. Why? All in the name of DRM.

And yeah, he used the community with a super positive attitude, charging a considerably high amount of money to build a tool for a very niche market (where tools are traditionally released for free), and once the tool is done (or far from it) -surprise- he adds DRM to it to protect it? Doesn't he want to give it back to the community? Shouldn't it have been a project of passion like he made it seem to be before seeing all the money? Shouldn't he have delivered what he promissed in the first place?

Like you said, he created something terrible and then proceeded to publicly ridicule everyone who had a different point of view (with a few suckers backing him up). Anyone who followed the facebook discussions post release can attest to this. I can't imagine how he could have been any more deceiving, selfish and obnoxious.

It was my only experience with crowdfunding and I was obviously immediately and extremely disappointed.

It seems like if you overpromise and pre-charge and actively and quickly rule out naysayers you can keep the facade going on forever, and it pays off.
https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios <- Follow me on twitter! Thanks!

tepples
Posts: 22019
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by tepples » Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:41 am

kikutano wrote:My question is, why you should make a NES without coding?
One reason is to avoid the increased graphical complexity that gamers expect of native games. Keeping the graphics provably at NES or GB spec limits the expected scope of your project to what a solo dev is more likely to manage.
kikutano wrote:Why don't use Unity or Godot?
To avoid "y arent the gfx 4k" from uninformed players who think "4K" means "display nearly 4,000 pixels wide" rather than 4096 bytes used to define a pattern table.
nesrocks wrote:The tool uses this insane assets format and doesn't take traditional CHR files. Why? All in the name of DRM.
Even "doesn't take CHR files" would be fine if the asset format were documented. For example, the sprite tools I made for Libbet and the Magic Floor for Game Boy are similar to those I made for a previous paid NES project. The program (this) takes a PNG sprite sheet (such as this) and a text file containing a list of rectangles to extract (such as this), producing compressed CHR and metasprites. Both the compression method and the metasprite format are documented at the top of the source code files that read them (this and this respectively).

My primary complaint remains not putting anyone on the task of addressing the incompatibility with Wine.

User avatar
FrankenGraphics
Formerly WheelInventor
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:55 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by FrankenGraphics » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:32 am

Please note that i'm not taking sides when reading this. I pretty much think the "sides" is an artificial dialectic anyway and we'd do much better without this barrier.
In this post, i'm listing things i think are good, and bad.


I'm not sure how the internal painting tool could be considered DRM? I don't agree with its design, but you're always two clicks away from importing .chr files from NESST and use that as your main editor. Treat the NESST project files as canon, and you're golden. I just wish those two clicks weren't necessary to begin with, and i'll submit that the bRGB, non-indexed bitmap files a NESmaker project uses is unintellible to any other editor out there. Like, you can open it and edit it technically, but you can't make heads or tails of the graphics. plain .chr or even just indexed .png or .gif:s would be foolproof and universally usable.

My thinking is they needed to include *some* graphics editing capabilities in the IDE to call it a complete studio, but if you're really into nes dev you know specialized tools for each step will accelerate your productivity by factors.

Speaking of productivity, here's two positive points with NESmaker.

1) see attachments. I was able to whip this game up in under half a year. In it, you sanitize a post-apocalyptic "adventure time" inspired coastal band from tech- and plastic waste while avoiding "scraptoids" - waste based life forms. You can walk, run or sneak. A session ends when the night comes and the main character needs to take shelter. You can speak with seagulls who help with orientation. The game has custom AI, background/foreground priority handling, animated title screen sprite overlays, several gameplay mechanics, a new game timer, leaner object collision handling, selective tile path building, split-screen emphasis bits usage to simulate evening and night independent of the HUD, and persistent, self-flashing high scores; none of which come ready out of the box.

The game is good enough for its intended purpose, as a sort of entertaining art installation accentuating a point in a museal exhibition about plastic waste.

I would not be confident releasing the game in a commercial capacity though. Part of it is i was testing the waters, and i don't think the game is at the level where i'd expect an end user to pay for the cartridge materials. Part of it is there's some cosmetic but deep bugs that i just couldn't get rid of, especially pertaining to flimsy handling of the HUD updates, collision handling and screen-to-screen surfing.

So yeah, if you want to use this for game production with the quality expectations of a proper physical cartridge, be prepared to put on a diving suit and start debugging and trimming the provided codebase, or limit your creativity by designing around the bugs. And expect to sink a fair bit of your time into it no matter. Shaking and baking a game will always be a pipe dream if you have creative ambitions beyond having something walk around a screen. Effort is always needed.

Matter of fact is though: i'd never have made this mini project if it weren't for NESmaker, because i saw it feasible to do within half a year, rather than 2-3 years if doing it from the ground up and doing lots of mistakes on the road. I'm glad i've tested the waters this way. I might even return now that i know a fair bit about how it works. Your mileage will vary.

2) I've found use for NESmaker outside making a NESmaker game, too, while working on Project Blue assets.

When trying out animations and timings for some of our character sprites, at some point i felt frustrated mocking up the animations in photoshop.
Project Blues' sprite objects are made in a very classic, lightweight format (sprites lined up on an 8x8 position grid; simplistic animation control), and photoshop felt too clunky for a task that should be equally simple. On the other hand NESST is a great sprite handling tool but it wasn't designed to preview animations across a time domain.
Another option i had at hand was writing up a small demo to verify my animations, but that ran counter to my wish to save time.

Since i already had the NESmaker license and already knew my way around most of its features, I decided that rather than investing time teaching myself some new graphics tool meant for more modern sprite design, i could much easier use NM to preview some of my sprite animations in a minutes' time, since it uses a very similar format for meta-sprites.
This way i could quickly check if the timing would look all right and how the sprites looked against a few mockup backgrounds.


All that said, i do share some of Skrotebags' concerns. It's very easy to lose unsaved work simply by switching what is viewed. It is hard to view all the things you usually need at the same time (if you have a dialogue window open, which you often have to maintain the plumbing of scripts etc), you're prohibited from viewing and editing anything else in the IDE, including the references you need to efficiently make the right choices in that dialogue box.

There are a lot of bugs in the source, and some of them should really have been addressed before public release. But that's water under the bridge, what's important is what comes next. There's a big update coming any day now (v 5.0), and personally, i'm eager to see what has been changed.


What i really don't understand is the polarization of trad nes devers and the new crowd coming in using NM. From day one, i don't think most of those comments came from this community, but from day one NM was commented on by 5 second glancers with little to no know-how who immediately disregarded the project as impossible. Who wouldn't get defensive from that sort of unsocisited negativity? I think it's simply because a lot of people, again external to nesdev, regards the NES/FC as something impossible to make games for simply because of N:s tight license control and lack of public documentation.

The criticism around here is, for some part easier to understand: It's hard to promote a tool with the slogan "no programming required" to a bunch of programmers. Not least programmers who are here because the programming itself is the hobby. That isn't necessarily true for others. Maybe you're a story writer, or musician, or animator... maybe that's the hobby for you. You get the picture.

Now, i agree the slogan wasn't the best way to put it - i will always maintain that if you want to make something act in a way the way you want it to, you're doing programming. There's no way around that.

If there's one thing i DO think needs massive improvement, it's replacing the current metatile system for level backgrounds wholesale. Storing metatiles directly in a 256-tile memory along with the path system and text/hud characters does not meet common/current nes graphics expectations of diversity, and it makes level building clunky, despite the seeming directness. Anyway, that's my 2 cents about that, and eveyone can judge for themselves. It's certainly enough for some game types/styles, but limits commercial viability.

What NM really has going for it , is what i said on the discord. I'll simply quote it.
my take: nesmaker is a great playground to legally without grayzones learn the ropes of assembly by tweaking an open engine. that engine is also getting continous improvements.

can you make a great feeling game in nesmaker? sure. but it won't take 10 hours. more like months and months of sparetime, at the very least.

you can get something that plays in under an hour. will somebody else find it worthwhile to play? unlikely
also be aware that nesmaker does a lot of hard design decisions for you. That is both a pro and a con.


In sum, it possibly can't be everyones' cup of tea, maybe especially in regard to being an all-in one package. It's like how yy-chr vs nesst might not be everyones' cup of tea, but magnified by all it strives to accomplish in one executable. But - it is there, people learn stuff from using it, it accelerates the creative proces, there are a few very promising project coming out of it, and it has brought more attention to NES homebrew in general, which can only be a good thing. So it's not just a one-way transaction of benefiting for the community. I think NESmaker is also giving it back bringing lots of needed attention and awareness, paid license or not. Either way, it costs just a couple of pizzas where i live, and our currency has been pretty weak compared to the dollar lately.



Again, i'm anticipating v5.0 with interest. And when i find the time, i will try it out and see what it can do.

Edit: forgot the attachments. uploading one now, and one from my phone in a minute.

Edit 2: I also want to add that i consider Joe a valuable and appreciated member of the community. And ever so often, he's doing his best to promote the existense of NES homebrewing *outside* of NESmaker too. So i think the pointing of fingers is a bit misinformed and unfair.
Attachments
87B1851D-4795-401B-8F00-FC54AC68D29E.JPG
garbagehunter.gif
garbagehunter.gif (30.96 KiB) Viewed 8687 times
Last edited by FrankenGraphics on Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
http://www.frankengraphics.com - personal NES blog

User avatar
FrankenGraphics
Formerly WheelInventor
Posts: 2032
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:55 am
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by FrankenGraphics » Mon Nov 11, 2019 7:34 am

tepples wrote:Even "doesn't take CHR files" would be fine if the asset format were documented.
It does take chr files, by means of import. but you can't work on them directly inside the suite in that format. The import process itself is one click too many, but it's manageable.

The key here is using NESST or another chr editor as your pipeline source. The assets tool in the suite is there just to provide something without relying on third parties, is my take.
http://www.frankengraphics.com - personal NES blog

Skrotebag
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:28 am

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Skrotebag » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:22 pm

FrankenGraphics wrote:I'm not sure how the internal painting tool could be considered DRM?
I think he's referring to the overall Nesmaker program DRM, you can't use it without purchase, no demo?

I don't really disagree with anything in FrankenGraphics balanced response, though I view it all through the filter of knowing that they're an experienced, talented and dedicated developer to start off with, and I think if I'd spent the same amount of time (and had a talent transfusion) I may have written much the same, though I'd still have come down heavily on the advertising of the tool. As I pointed out, my review is of actually using the software for much longer than a '5 second glance', and I'd file FrankenGraphics as at the other end of the spectrum of time spent and initial experience, so I'd hope including my viewpoint people can find their own place in there to assess it from.
FrankenGraphics wrote: So i think the pointing of fingers is a bit misinformed and unfair.
It depends which things are being pointed at and what information is being responded to, and I will only report my own experiences. I didn't bring up the personal aspect of this.

I actually had a section regarding 'customer service' in my review, but after much thought, decided to take it out of my OP. Although I don't post or interact on here, I do value and respect the community and have been a visitor for years - I didn't want to add any sourness to the pot, it seldom helps, but I think I maybe should speak my mind, as my experience really did colour my view of supporting WIP software, and if they want to behave like a company (when it suits them) why shouldn't I express my dissatisfaction? So, here is the rest of the review:

----->

Normally, I'd chalk it up to experience, or just shelve it until they got it (hopefully) into a less frustrating place, I like to support WIP software, it's all good.

However, I'm not working, and $36 is pretty much a weeks food for me at the moment, seriously. They're supposedly nice people. I paid for a software development tool with no demo facility (which their licensing platform does seem to support BTW), I like to think this is a supportive and decent act, I took a chance on them, so I decided to give some constructive feedback and politely asked for a refund, wouldn't mind a bit of support myself.

This is my personal feeling: the florid and expansive responses were demeaning, accusatory and passive aggressive. I don't mind that they wouldn't give a refund, like I said, I just thought in this case it may be nice if they would, but it's not something that I'd pursue. The way they said it though, really quite upset me.

Apparently the time I've wasted was worth the money I paid, I could have shipped an entire game in the time I'd had it (and by inference, had done, and was now just trying it on. Or was too stupid, impatient, take your pick) I've actually 'enjoyed' using it, like a video game, and if I'd taken a game back to a shop they'd have told me where to get off. A simple "Sorry, we can't give refunds" would have been vastly preferable and apposite compared to the walls of blame, excuse and unrelated self promotion I got back.

I didn't actually argue much, if they want to make customers (which we are - they are selling a no-demo software development tool for a not-throwaway sum) feel like carp that's their loss in the long run. They also seem to have weaponized the meaning of 'community' to suit their own goals and view of the universe as it suits them: I was certainly made to feel that the fact I wasn't 'helping them make it better' was an act of betrayal to them and the NES community at large.

<-------

They may be part of the community by association, but that doesn't mean their behaviour and interaction is beyond criticism, benign or beneficent to it or remotely occupying the same moral place as devs who for years freely released tools, tutorials and quietly nurtured the community with no recompense other than the respect duly earned and given. You know, actual 8 bit heroes.

All in all, I had a very poor customer experience if you think they're a company, a distasteful personal experience if you think it's a community project, or both, take your pick.

Review ends.

User avatar
nesrocks
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by nesrocks » Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:09 pm

Skrotebag wrote:You know, actual 8 bit heroes.
This is right on.
You have no idea how he ridiculed people who do reverse engineering of NES roms. Seriously, I couldn't believe it, but he was sarcastic, in public even. Claiming that the practice is evil. Way to be grateful for the craft that enabled him to profit.

He knows what he is doing. He is profitting from creating a brand. His tool is the best thing ever, it's clean, it doesn't have anything bad related to it, like reverse engineering 3rd party hardware or software. And people who don't know better (as he knows, most people) will believe him. And that strengthens the act.
Skrotebag wrote:I was certainly made to feel that the fact I wasn't 'helping them make it better' was an act of betrayal to them and the NES community at large.
Just wanted to quote this so nobody misses it.
https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios <- Follow me on twitter! Thanks!

User avatar
DRW
Posts: 1976
Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2013 2:59 pm

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by DRW » Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:27 am

nesrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:26 am
And yeah, he used the community with a super positive attitude, charging a considerably high amount of money to build a tool for a very niche market (where tools are traditionally released for free), and once the tool is done (or far from it) -surprise- he adds DRM to it to protect it? Doesn't he want to give it back to the community? Shouldn't it have been a project of passion like he made it seem to be before seeing all the money? Shouldn't he have delivered what he promissed in the first place?
nesrocks wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2019 4:09 pm
You have no idea how he ridiculed people who do reverse engineering of NES roms. Seriously, I couldn't believe it, but he was sarcastic, in public even. Claiming that the practice is evil. Way to be grateful for the craft that enabled him to profit.
I just wanted to point out that this very forum is still doing big, fat adverisement for him on the front page.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

Bananmos
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:08 am
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Bananmos » Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:51 am

To add to the reviews: I backed the original campaign, and tried a version just slightly newer than the first Kickstarter release. (4.0.11 to be specific)

I haven't really touched it since then though, as I didn't find the experience all that enjoyable, and it felt like I was spending too much time trying to learn the quirks of somebody's first stab at a NES game engine. Having gone through two tutorials (with some weird bugs still remaining), I concluded it wasn't worth my time in its current state, and decided to park it until the software matured.

As others have pointed out, the GUI was also not that great, and very much designed around restrictions of the game engine. They are pretty arbitrary restrictions presumably put in it ages ago to make the Mystic Searches 6502 code more easy to write - but not necessarily more optimal in terms of speed / space. For example, there's pretty harsh limitations on sprites having to follow a grid layout just like background, no support for overlaying of sprites with different palettes, no ability to re-use 8x8 BG tiles within other 16x16 metatiles, etc. I could go on, but you get the idea.

I haven't regretted backing it though. For one thing, the price is peanuts to me as a reasonably well-off software contractor, and I loved the general idea of a tool that provides a lower barrier to nesdev.

Secondly, I've been extremely impressed with what the community of NESMaker users have created with this limited tool. Joe really did manage to tap into a new audience, who love the idea to design good games for an old outdated platform with limited hardware, but for whom the hurdle of learning SW engineering on an old 8-bit platform would just be a bit too big to make that a reality. The Byteoff entries really surprised me in terms of the quality of the entries overall, and I would suggest people check them out. Some are top-notch in terms of graphics, with very unique game mechanics as well. It's really awesome what people have been able to pull off given all the constraints and quirks. This gives me fun games to put on my list of NES games for rainy days of non-coding, and that alone makes me a happy backer.

The community he created is a mixed bag of course. There are a lot of fanbois who will use the Facebook group to just thumbs-up each other and act like jerks to people who dare even hint that NESMaker is not a satisfactory product. But there's also many hard-working game creators (like Frankengraphics) patiently helping each other out and putting out some great stuff both with and without the tool. I think it's just the usual problem with internet forums: that the former category of people tends to make more noise.

Yes, the project was definitely oversold (for example, referring to snippets of included assembly as "scripts" is just silly). But then again so are most software products pitched to potential buyers, big or small. Maybe I've just seen this in my professional career so often that the over-selling of NESMaker doesn't seem like such a cardinal sin in my eyes...

The software seems to be constantly improving as well, so I hope to check it out in the future with a less frustrating experience. There is a big 5.0 release planned with some drastic changes to the engine. As far as I've understood it will be a free upgrade to backers - but even if it wasn't, I'd probably be cool with that. It's been worked on for over a year since the first Kickstarter version arrived, by a multi-person team. And they have to get new money at some point. I backed the "official strategy guide" reward, and when this paper-guide will be ready sounds like the best time to give this gamemaking software a second chance.

It seems like this thread has diverged more into criticism of Joe's character rather than the NESMaker software itself, and while I certainly don't want to invalidate people's bad experiences or own impressions, I personally think it's a pretty harsh judgement on the guy.
I can second that Joe doesn't seem to take criticism all that well. There have been a number of occasions where he starts a flame thread to get his league of fanbois officially defending him from criticism he's received in PMs. This is indeed pretty unprofessional and distateful - even in the cases where I feel the criticism towards him has been unfair.

At the same time, I don't think all of this comes from manipulative behaviour as has been suggested here. What I see is still someone very dedicated to their craft, working diligently to improve it, and then over-reacting when all those late nights still leaves some people unsatisfied. And being put on a pedestal by so many fanbois is probably not good for anyone's character. With so many people constantly singing your praise you're bound to over-react when someone doesn't. Sadly, I think that's just human nature. Not an excuse for bad behaviour, but perhaps an explanation.

I can agree that charging for his software objectively gives Joe fewer karma points than all the people who have historically provided nesdev tools for free (myself included - I think Memblers himself once said this forum wouldn't exist without NerdTracker2, quite the compliment to receive).
But ultimately it doesn't bother me too much today in 2019. Maybe 20 years ago it would have. That again may be the difference between being a poor teenager just learning about NES coding to now just entering middle-age with a good income and just being happy to see some other people still interested in your weird long-term dormant hobby. And I do think the current scope and ambitions of NESMaker is substantial enough to charge for. It's not just the software either. The amount of video tutorials also requires a lot of work and dedication.

And whatever you think of Joe's personality traits, there's no denying that his charisma has an appeal to many, and that his work actually has helped a lot of people who didn't quite have the skills and determination to get there on their own. Bringing fresh blood to the nesdev scene is always a good thing (even if fresh blood in this case means middle-aged dads wanting to make NES Games with their kids).

But anyway, ultimately I've never met the guy and can really only judge him based on forum posts, and just still being a fan of the original vision.

If there's anything I'm disappointed with personally in terms of the software, it's that there's still no trial version of NESMaker available. I know this wasn't ever promised as part of the Kickstarter campaign, but it just seemed like a natural evolution of the software. One big reason for backing the software was to try it out in a gamejam setting, where you could bring your NES + this gamemaker tool and introduce the world of nesdev to keen newbies, without having to be on the critical path as a coder and vet+convert all the graphics created.
But asking participants to buy a piece of software for a weekend of coding-for-fun would make me feel like a dodgy salesman more than a contributor. Fingers crossed, this will also surface in a later more mature version of the software...
Last edited by Bananmos on Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tepples
Posts: 22019
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:12 pm
Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by tepples » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 am

The parts I'm disappointed with, which have turned me off from even getting to the point where I can make a review, are

1. Windows-only, incompatible with Wine, and no effort to rectify this for the benefit of regular users of macOS or X11/Linux
2. Things that are more the fault of ASM6 than NESmaker
3. Things that are more the fault of the Windows division of Microsoft than NESmaker
4. The New 8-Bit Heroes skipped DVD
5. Things that are more the fault of Amazon and Vimeo than Joe

Mostly it's my doubt that NESmaker and The New 8-Bit Heroes are enough of a killer app that a reasonable person who uses a Mac or Linux PC and a DVD player would buy a Windows license, VM software, and a Blu-ray player just for them. Is my doubt correct?


[2] Lack of a viable counterpart to translation unit scope, and numerous reproducible bugs in its macro system
[3] RAM use, needing so many disk seeks on startup and shutdown, and reportedly forbidding use of a preinstalled copy in a VM
[5] The platforms' inability to let a producer provide complimentary keys to a film's cast

User avatar
gauauu
Posts: 700
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:21 pm
Location: Central Illinois, USA
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by gauauu » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:16 pm

tepples wrote:
Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:27 am

Mostly it's my doubt that NESmaker and The New 8-Bit Heroes are enough of a killer app that a reasonable person who uses a Mac or Linux PC and a DVD player would buy a Windows license, VM software, and a Blu-ray player just for them. Is my doubt correct?
I'm pretty sure that reasonable people don't use linux PCs like you and I do. :D

But really, most people that are using Mac or Linux can find a windows computer or VM to use if they really want to. I understand your reasons/excuses not to, but it's not a useful argument to assume that most people think like you do in that regard.
[5] The platforms' inability to let a producer provide complimentary keys to a film's cast
I imagine a guy that's as much of a go-getter as Joe could find a way to let you see it if he actually wanted to.

Skrotebag
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:28 am

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Skrotebag » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:59 am

I did watch the film and must say that I thought that Joe and the other guy were really quite disrespectful, taking the piss out of the people he went to for help in quite a nasty way (how they were dressed, their names), I was put very much in mind of jocks going to nerds for homework help while still treating them like rubbish. Honestly, was half expecting them to start dishing out wedgies....

User avatar
tokumaru
Posts: 11771
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:43 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by tokumaru » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:52 am

Skrotebag wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:59 am
I did watch the film and must say that I thought that Joe and the other guy were really quite disrespectful, taking the piss out of the people he went to for help in quite a nasty way (how they were dressed, their names), I was put very much in mind of jocks going to nerds for homework help while still treating them like rubbish. Honestly, was half expecting them to start dishing out wedgies....
I didn't watch the movie, but I have noticed that there's a recent trend that documentaries have to be funny to be entertaining, and a lot of the jokes seem to come at the expense of the people appearing on screen. If this has indeed happened, it's a shame that people who were supposed to be part of this niche community are making fun of the people in it. At this point, I suppose it's possible that they don't consider themselves part of the community at all, and are just exploiting it for money.

calima
Posts: 1160
Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:16 am

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by calima » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:15 am

Yes, it did joke at tepples's attire. Though if I was tepples I'd just pirate the video.

User avatar
nesrocks
Posts: 461
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:40 pm
Location: Rio de Janeiro - Brazil
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by nesrocks » Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:29 pm

I really like Bananmos analysis. Maybe I'm being too harsh. But maybe I'm exagerating a little just to get people to notice it isn't all flowers and rainbows.

@Skrotebag: wow, now you got me interested to watch it. That sounds bad. Especially with the free advertising in the front page of nesdev.com as DRW reminded us in this thread.
https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios <- Follow me on twitter! Thanks!

Bananmos
Posts: 532
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 9:08 am
Contact:

Re: NESMaker reviews?

Post by Bananmos » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:43 pm

Skrotebag wrote:
Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:59 am
I did watch the film and must say that I thought that Joe and the other guy were really quite disrespectful, taking the piss out of the people he went to for help in quite a nasty way (how they were dressed, their names), I was put very much in mind of jocks going to nerds for homework help while still treating them like rubbish. Honestly, was half expecting them to start dishing out wedgies....
Agreed. The judgmental words on both Memblers and Tepples were a bit of a low-point in what I otherwise found to be a heart-warming and entertaining documentary. (if like me you can see past the fact it's very much a movie about a-man-and-his-ego)

I was thinking to myself that hopefully Memblers and Tepples were both in on the joke. (after all, we all have enough self-awareness to wear the "nerd" label with pride at the best of times). And that would half-redeem it as just a not-the-greatest-kind-of-humor for the sake of entertainment. But if Tepples hasn't even had an opportunity to OK the final product with jokes at his expense... that's no way to treat your mentors. :/

Post Reply