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 Post subject: Ubuntu test
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:34 am 
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Location: Jongny, VD, Switzerland
I'm writing this post from my newly installed Ubuntu.
Altough installing the OS is simple, having internet connexion is a headache. Does it work ?

EDIT : Oh and how am I supposed to listen nsf/gbs/spc/psf/psf2/gsf/2sf files here ? No winamp. That sucks. I guess I'll be back to windows soon.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:13 am 
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How did you post this if you didn't get internet working? I'm confused what you're actually asking.

If you install XMMS from an older release of ubuntu, you can find plugins that will play many of those. I think there's still no N64 or PS2 PSF players, however.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:50 am 
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Well, I have internet with RS-232 connexion wich is slow, unreliable and that have an ugly cable transversing all my room. With Windows I could use wireless conexion via USB which is faster.

PS : I really don't quite like Linux now that I've tried it. After how many people told me how great it was supposed to be I'm really disappointed. My screen canot get bigger than 800x600 pixels which is horrible, and the only emu I could play is Snes9x which is much worse than it's windows counterpart. And when you press a direction arrow for a while while typing text, it won't cross more than one character. Now I'll try other graphical interfaces than Gnome hoping it will fix at least some of those problems.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:25 am 
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I've been using Ubuntu for a year or two, everything worked out of the box except back/forward for my mx518 mouse.
Mednafen is in the Ubuntu repository, you can also run Windows emulators (and most other Windows programs) through Wine if you prefer.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 9:41 am 
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lol Bregalad you sound exactly like me each time i try linux. as far as i can tell it's the OS for masochists


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 11:06 am 
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I understand how you feel. However, most of the issues you are facing have a solution, we're just not used to Linux so we don't know how to fix them. You can certainly increase the resolution. You can certainly use wireless networks. You can run many Windows programs with Wine. How? Don't ask me. I fail at the most basic tasks in Linux, but I know it's not the OS' fault, it's me, I don't know how to do any of those things because I've been a Windows user all my life.

I've been trying hard to understand Linux since Vista came out. If that's the direction Windows is heading to, I will not be able to use it much longer. On my notebook Ubuntu works great, it has all the drivers, no problem. On my desktop PC it's a very different story, and I can't seem to succeed in installing the appropriate device drivers, which makes the whole experience very frustrating. But there is no other way, I'm not going to use Vista, and Windows 7 will probably suck as well.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:33 pm 
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FAP plays many formats, and it's for Linux.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:56 am 
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All my computer crashed and I wasn't able to boot on Linux nor Windows. All my tentatives to re-install Windows and format the PC failed, so... I just had to format it and install with ubuntu. I suspect that the programmers intentionally ruined my Windows partition to force me to definitely switch to linux.

And yeah how many people told me that anyone that cares a little about computer science should absolutely switch to linux and throw Windows away beacuse it's free and it's better, blah blah, I can definitely confirm this is all wrong, if you have a new computer and don't want to buy windows you may consider to switch but else if you have windows I'd say stick to it. And if you want to have both systmems on the same machine, you probably want thems on separate drives, as programmers for each system will intentionally destroy the other OS if they can.

Anyway working with a 800x600 screen is really annoying.

EDIT : Oh and Windows 7 is supposed to be better / less resources wastefull than Vista, which is good news. Else I'd say keep on W2000/XP as long as you can, even if this implies format the system disk and re-install all years, it's still less a waste of time than linux.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:11 am 
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If your hardware is old enough, Puppy might work better than Ubuntu. I seem to remember it being able to go 768p on an NVIDIA TNT2 that Ubuntu could only do 600p on.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:40 am 
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@blargg : Sorry I'm unable to re-compile FAP (no makefile) and there is no ubuntu binary (that's right, under linux you're supposed to recompile all programms yourself aren't you ?)

@tepples : Insteresting, but honnestly I've heard that Ubutnu is by very far the most user friendly Linux distribution, and I've to say it's really not that user friendly so I can barely imagine the others...
I can confirm that old versions Red Hat and Suse linuxes were really horrible cause my dad tried them with me long ago.

Overall after a few hours of Linux I could say a list of pros and cons of switching :

Pros of Ubuntu (don't know if it applies to other linuxes) :
- You can download it for free
- Choose your own graphical stuff among MANY predefined sets available
- You can get opera which is better than firefox
- You can get the latest version of WLA-DX and SNES9x
- A lot of stuff is automated (intenet connexion)
- Comes packaged with a lot of (free) software, for image editing, and cool minigames
- Boots and stops *slightly* faster than a Windows which has been installed for several years (but nowhere near as fast as linux fans claims)
- Automated installation of new programms

Pros of Windows :
- Almost ANY PC programm in existance have a Windows version, while few have a linux verison
- (almost ?) ALL devices in the wolrd that connect to a PC will be usable on Windows using a driver
- You can get wireless internet
- You can get more emulators and plugins for playing music from games
- You screen is bigger than 800x600
- More user friendly
- only ONE status bar at the bottom (instead of two status bar at top+bottom which eats up your small screen)
- You can play commercial PC games (assuming your hardware is up to date)
- You can change settings of SNES9x via a menu without imput all of them in the terminal manually (unless I missed something... the developpers said the latter version would be linux only, but I still preferred the "old" windows version)
- FCEUXD available (only regular FCEU in Linux), etc... (the list is long)

As you can see there is not that many pros for windows, but there is definitely bigger pros
Rumors spread by linux fans :
- Linux is faster than Windows : FALSE (both are arround the same)
- Linux is open source : ??? (Algouth it claims so, I still have to see the souce of it)
- Linux is safer than Windows : MOST LIKELY TRUE (it's hard to verify, but it asks your passwords every 2 secs which is annoying, and most viruses/trojans are for Windows)
- Linux is better for "true" programmers : FALSE (Windows have a lot of tools and cool GUI to help programmation. It's not easier to developp C++ programms for linux than windows, and the same applies to NES programms)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:19 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
Pros of Windows :
- Almost ANY PC programm in existance have a Windows version, while few have a linux verison

But in some cases (e.g. FontForge), the Windows version is just a recompile of the Linux version in Cygwin, and a lot of people have more trouble installing Cygwin than installing Wine.

Quote:
- (almost ?) ALL devices in the wolrd that connect to a PC will be usable on Windows using a driver

Windows XP drivers don't work so well on Windows Vista, nor do Windows Vista drivers work on Windows XP.

Quote:
- You can get wireless internet

Ubuntu on my Eee PC laptop can connect to APs just fine, as long as I know the WEP key.

Quote:
- You can get more emulators and plugins for playing music from games

What format are you thinking of that Game_Music_Emu doesn't cover? Besides, you'll have to transcode NSF to MP3 if you want to play it on most pocket digital audio players.

Quote:
- You screen is bigger than 800x600

I run Ubuntu on a laptop with a 1024x600 pixel internal LCD that I occasionally connect to a 1024x768 pixel external LCD. My employer runs it on a desktop PC with a 1440x900 pixel LCD and on another desktop PC with a 1280x1024 pixel LCD.

Quote:
- More user friendly

"User friendly" is a comic strip. Do you have some references for a properly configured Windows being easier to use than a properly configured Ubuntu? Or did you mean "Windows XP is more familiar to somebody who has been using Windows XP for the past seven years"? Or did you mean "major PC manufacturers can properly configure Windows but cannot properly configure Ubuntu"?

Quote:
- only ONE status bar at the bottom (instead of two status bar at top+bottom which eats up your small screen)

The first thing I did was move everything from the top panel to the bottom.

Quote:
- You can play commercial PC games (assuming your hardware is up to date)

DOSB ox works fine on Ubuntu, and plenty of games run in Wine.

Quote:
- FCEUXD available (only regular FCEU in Linux), etc... (the list is long)

I thought FCEUXD was merged into FCEUX.

Quote:
- Linux is open source : ??? (Algouth it claims so, I still have to see the souce of it)

Apparently archive.ubuntu.com has the source code for all packages included in Ubuntu.

Quote:
- Linux is safer than Windows : MOST LIKELY TRUE (it's hard to verify, but it asks your passwords every 2 secs which is annoying

If you are logged in to Ubuntu as a user with "sudo" (become administrator) privilege, and you open an administrative tool, the "gksudo" dialog box will ask for your password. UAC of Windows Vista isn't much different.

Quote:
- Linux is better for "true" programmers : FALSE (Windows have a lot of tools and cool GUI to help programmation. It's not easier to developp C++ programms for linux than windows, and the same applies to NES programms)

One of the things that might make this look true:
On Linux, tools such as GCC, Glade, Perl, PHP, and Python are available through each distribution's package manager, categorized into "programming" categories.
But on Windows, tools such as Visual C++ Express, Perl, PHP, Python, and PowerShell are available only from web sites. The only languages you get out of the box are Batch, VBScript, and JScript.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Bregalad, stop saying it sucks just because you can't get things to work. Wireless connection and screen resolution are ridiculous things to put in your pros/cons lists, because both systems handle those fine if you got the drivers correctly setup. You were probably just unlucky that Ubuntu didn't have the drivers for all your stuff, just like happened with my desktop PC. You gotta hunt down compatible drivers and install them yourself, that's all.

You are looking at this whole thing as a Windows user. You just feel Windows is better because you're used to it. It takes time to take advantage of the full potential of things. If overnight you decided to make a Genesis/MD game you'd probably fail miserably, but would you say the console sucks and that the NES is better? It most likely doesn't suck, and both consoles have their merits, you just don't know how to use the new system yet. With time you'll be able to.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:53 pm 
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I can understand a little bit of his frustration. Even though the linux community say every year "it's the year of the desktop".. It always bring me a smile that ends more in a grin in the end.

I tried 5 years ago if my memory is good and could last for 6 month. Until I got fed up since there was always something that didn't work like expected or couldn't find the proper replacement for a software I used. It could have been because I didn't know much about linux at the time but that was enough to discourage me.

Then I tried it again at work recently since I had some chance to put it back on my desktop for more testing.. Just tried to install ethereal from scratch and I was in dependency hell. Try to compile this, required that. Get that, require something else. Then get the other thing, not happy again. Search in forum here and here, modify ini file here and there. I would prefer it that was an easier way to install things sometime. RPM sometime work but that's not always the case.

Last time I tried Fedora core 10 because I wanted to see how much KDE4 changed. It was full of eye candies that I didn't need but that my personal opinion. So I decided to change a few visual settings just to see how it look like and it brought my machine down.

It seems I was not that lucky while using Linux too. Vista (and maybe windows 7) may help people to stay away from Microsoft or just stick with WinXP that still does the job even thought Microsoft want to tell you otherwise. I really want to make it work, just always something that doesn't work like expected.

So I understand how you feel. The configuration part is still an issue with Linux.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Quote:
Bregalad, stop saying it sucks just because you can't get things to work.


how about: it sucks because it's a pain in the ass to get things to work... ? ;)


nah, Linux doesn't suck... once you've got it installed and configured how you like, it is a nice OS.. but adding a new piece of software or hardware can sometimes be a multi-day ordeal filled with google searches and frustration.

It seems most power linux users still end up emulating windows to run half their programs anyways, so i'm not sure I even get the point. Linux seems like a great OS for a thin client or internet terminal, or anywhere a computer with limited functionality and high security is needed. but for day to day desktop use, it's really not the best choice imo.. but everyone has different needs so hey, use what u like :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:30 pm 
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Bregalad wrote:
Pros of Ubuntu (don't know if it applies to other linuxes) :
...
- Choose your own graphical stuff among MANY predefined sets available
...


With my bias towards simple pixelated looks I have yet to find a theme that I can enjoy. Emulating the classic windows theme is possible, but, with all the choices you've got, somehow doesn't feel right. :?
I decided to stay away from KDE and Gnome and chose Xfce as a window manager. However, even that one has become too cluttered with features in my opinion, so I'm looking for a more minimalistic WM now.

Also, it's fun how the diversity of Linux distributions used seemingly has decreased since Ubuntu became popular. Maybe it's just more frustrated Windows users switching to Ubuntu these days while the old user base still sticks to the other distros.


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