Anyone up for a Point and Click Project?
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Anyone up for a Point and Click Project?
I am thinking that I would like to make a point-and-click adventre game, but I think I would need help with the art. Anyone want to help out?
- NESHomebrew
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Do you plan on porting an existing game, or do you want completely new graphics.
KHan is working on LSL and I've been doing the image conversions for him, which is time consuming, but doesn't require quite as much work than making completely new stuff (or art skills). Do you plan on having a cursor, or will you just walk up to things.
I'd love to see some of the early KQ games converted.
KHan is working on LSL and I've been doing the image conversions for him, which is time consuming, but doesn't require quite as much work than making completely new stuff (or art skills). Do you plan on having a cursor, or will you just walk up to things.
I'd love to see some of the early KQ games converted.
I was thinking cursor-based without verbs. IE you just click on a door it will open, click on an open door to move through it.
A major focus of the design will be to streamline the interface and user experiance. I feel a big barrier to entry for players of the older games was the clunky interface, and the "guess the verb" puzzles that tend to emerge.
I'll have all this in the design doc.
A major focus of the design will be to streamline the interface and user experiance. I feel a big barrier to entry for players of the older games was the clunky interface, and the "guess the verb" puzzles that tend to emerge.
I'll have all this in the design doc.
I always wanted to make a point-and-click adventure for the NES... The only game of that kind I'm aware of is Manic Mansion, which can actually be seen as 2 games, considering how different the japanese version is, but in both games the graphics are very primitive, and I believe the NES can do better.
There's an interesting game for the GBC called The Fish Files, which looks a lot like Day Of The Tentacle. Obviously the NES can't produce such colorful backgrounds, but that's the kind of graphics I'd like to go for. A lot of CHR would be necessary. Sprites are also a concern... it would be hard to have more than 2 characters in the same room, unless some of them always stood on the same place, in which case they could be drawn with background tiles and have just small details animated.
There's an interesting game for the GBC called The Fish Files, which looks a lot like Day Of The Tentacle. Obviously the NES can't produce such colorful backgrounds, but that's the kind of graphics I'd like to go for. A lot of CHR would be necessary. Sprites are also a concern... it would be hard to have more than 2 characters in the same room, unless some of them always stood on the same place, in which case they could be drawn with background tiles and have just small details animated.
A lot of people start big projects without any planning and quit early. I'm trying to help the community learn best practices, if only because I want more projects to get finished. From what I understand of a discussion on one of Fedora's mailing lists, Fedora doesn't include emulators precisely because not enough NES homebrew projects are finished.qbradq wrote:I am just trying to get a feel for how receptive the community is to this type of collaboration.
The NES has no mouse without soldering. I can give you a copy of the cursor control code I use in Thwaite, which handles precise motions and large motions using subtle acceleration. Combine this with a slight bit of "auto-aim", or attraction toward clickable objects when the player lets go of the Control Pad, and it could be made workable.qbradq wrote:I was thinking cursor-based
Occasionally, you might need verbs. By analogy to left- and right-click in a PC game, you could have the A Button do the primary action and the B Button pop up a list of actions if needed.qbradq wrote:without verbs.
And as guess the verb declined, hunt the pixel initially increased.qbradq wrote:I feel a big barrier to entry for players of the older games was the clunky interface, and the "guess the verb" puzzles that tend to emerge.
That is true.tepples wrote:The NES has no mouse without soldering.qbradq wrote:I was thinking cursor-based
However, it would be neat to have an adapter that does one of the following:
1) Connects serial mouse to joypad2 port. Granted, there are a gazillion different serial mouse protocols out there. NES code to support a few shouldn't be too huge.
2) Connects a USB mouse (via small pic or similar) to joypad2 port. The processor would convert the mouse data into something "simpler" for the NES to consume, and allow the NES to poll the mouse instead of sending async events that the NES would most likely miss.
A prototype for #1 can be done with minimal parts (and yes, a little soldering, or at least twisting wires together).
I lack the skills to attempt #2. However, if someone were to use #1 long enough to develop a game for it, someone (kevtris, bunnyboy, qbradq, etc...) might take up the challenge of #2 with a goal of making them cheap enough to sell.
@tokumaru,
Check out the Uninvited TAS on YouTube to get an idea of what I am thinking about. Sprite animations are very sparse, and you cannot see your character on-screen. It's a point-and-click first person game. I think that style of game is much more doable on the NES, and I personally prefer them to the Scumm style games.
@tepples,
Dang man, you have some very good insights! I was planning on using a rubber-band cursor (helps with pixel hunting too). I would love to see your cursor control code.
@clueless,
I like the idea of using a cheap USB micro-controller to interface with a mouse and the controller port. Are there any other uses for this you can think of? It'd be strange to develop such a gizmo for a single project.
Check out the Uninvited TAS on YouTube to get an idea of what I am thinking about. Sprite animations are very sparse, and you cannot see your character on-screen. It's a point-and-click first person game. I think that style of game is much more doable on the NES, and I personally prefer them to the Scumm style games.
@tepples,
Dang man, you have some very good insights! I was planning on using a rubber-band cursor (helps with pixel hunting too). I would love to see your cursor control code.
@clueless,
I like the idea of using a cheap USB micro-controller to interface with a mouse and the controller port. Are there any other uses for this you can think of? It'd be strange to develop such a gizmo for a single project.
Several game types lend themselves to using a mouse interface instead of a joypad. I don't see designing (or even fabricating) a NES / PC Mouse adapter project having only one application.qbradq wrote:I like the idea of using a cheap USB micro-controller to interface with a mouse and the controller port. Are there any other uses for this you can think of? It'd be strange to develop such a gizmo for a single project.
(my opinion, made up right now and most likely flawed beyond repair): Joypads are more useful for games where the player in controlling ONE actor, moving the actor against the environment (Zelda, smb1, Metroid, etc...) Where user-input should result in direction action (move, jump, fire, etc...)
Mice are more useful when you need to interact with an environment directly, or have multiple actors. In both of those cases, moving the environment "cursor" or selecting an actor is cumbersome with a mouse. Examples would be an RTS game, or something like Simcity, Populous, Lemmings (those little bastards move too fast for a mouse though!), King's Quest and possibly turn-based games like Shingen the Ruler and Genghis Khan.
Some games can use either with the same effect. For example, Tepples' Thwaite.
I have some ideas on how to implement (UI, AI + actual game engine) an RTS for the NES. However, the prospect of using a joypad for it kinda sucks. A mouse would be much better.
I am not ready to begin such an endeavor though. I'm still trying to finish up my Yars' Revenge clone. However, if you guys would like to design a NES <-> PC Mouse interface, we can start a new thread, or fork this one off one post above this one. I don't want to hijack your original thread about graphics design.
Sometimes, it's not about pushing the limits as much as making something fun.tokumaru wrote:...and that takes half of the fun away!qbradq wrote:I think that style of game is much more doable on the NES
I have much more fun thinking about things that are commonly considered "not suitable" for these old consoles!