Help needed: Rockman 6-in-1 multicart hardware

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MottZilla
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Post by MottZilla » Wed May 09, 2012 8:40 am

80sFREAK wrote:
MotZilla wrote:Really just slap enough AND/OR gates together and you can make whatever multi-cart logic you want.
Most likely yes, but i had to fall back from your description to the first table. By the way, can you confirm that data exactly correct?
The table I posted way back in this thread should be correct. The Rockman multi was dumped and emulated with the information. The table for register settings can be found in the menu rom.

In my opinion if you are going to make a multi cart for the Rockman games you should not take the easy way out and end up with a product that is cheap or poor quality. It would be appealing to have all the games on one cartridge, just like Super Mario All Stars, Mega Man The Wily Wars, or Ninja Gaiden Trilogy. But not if the games function poorly.The first two games being the obvious problem using different mappers.

80sFREAK
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Post by 80sFREAK » Wed May 09, 2012 8:49 am

At moment i'm after built hardware master(menu) mapper. As you confirmed table, logic should be correct, but i want to see LED's blinking :wink:

You sounds, like i should release this on commercial basis. Should i? :? Donations are welcome :)

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MottZilla
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Post by MottZilla » Wed May 09, 2012 9:54 am

I'm not sure what you mean. Did you construct a PCB that you wire to a MMC3 board or something?

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FARID
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Post by FARID » Wed May 09, 2012 11:05 am

How about this new logic :

27C080 --> PRG1
27C080 --> PRG2
27C040 --> CHR
6264 --> SRAM
AX5202P --> MMC3
74HC174 --> Latch

74HC174 Input/Output :
PRG D0 --> PRG1 A19 + PRG2 A19
PRG D1 --> PRG1 A18 + CHR A18
PRG D2 --> PRG1 /OE
PRG D3 --> PRG2 /OE
PRG D4 --> CHR /OE
PRG D5 --> SRAM /OE

Rockman 5 --> 256 + 256 --> PRG1 + CHR --> XX101000 --> 28 --> menu
Rockman 3 --> 256 + 256 --> PRG1 + CHR --> XX101010 --> 2A
Rockman 1 --> 256 + 8 ----> PRG1 + SRAM -> XX011001 --> 19
Rockman 2 --> 256 + 8 ----> PRG1 + SRAM -> XX011011 --> 1B
Rockman 4 --> 512 + 8 ----> PRG2 + SRAM -> XX0101X0 --> 14
Rockman 6 --> 512 + 8 ----> PRG2 + SRAM -> XX0101X1 --> 15
Last edited by FARID on Fri May 11, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

80sFREAK
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Post by 80sFREAK » Wed May 09, 2012 4:52 pm

MottZilla wrote:I'm not sure what you mean. Did you construct a PCB that you wire to a MMC3 board or something?
Yes, it's a master(menu) mapper for MMC3 boards. Prototype phase at moment. 8 common IC's final amount. No more, no less.

2 FARID And where is menu code? :? Plus you wasting quarter of CHR chip.

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kyuusaku
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Post by kyuusaku » Wed May 09, 2012 5:45 pm

Using the scheme I suggested I got it into a generic 3-bit register, a '157/257 and a lone OR gate.. which kinda sucks. The OR gate can be implemented with diodes, meh, or a '139 which would give the register more selective decoding.

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Post by 80sFREAK » Wed May 09, 2012 6:04 pm

kyuusaku wrote:Using the scheme I suggested I got it into a generic 3-bit register, a '157/257 and a lone OR gate.. which kinda sucks. The OR gate can be implemented with a '139 which would give the register more selective decoding.
Instaed of OR gate use diodes, Luke :wink: You are on the way, but far behind :)

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kyuusaku
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Post by kyuusaku » Wed May 09, 2012 6:15 pm

I had thought of that but diode gates are horrible. Far behind from what? I could implement this in about 10 minutes on a CPLD board, I have no interest apart from optimizing logic.

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Post by 80sFREAK » Wed May 09, 2012 6:27 pm

kyuusaku wrote:I had thought of that but diode gates are horrible. Far behind from what? I could implement this in about 10 minutes on a CPLD board, I have no interest apart from optimizing logic.
How about discrete logic?

P.S. Not you, software you using actually :wink:
P.P.S. Sorry, dude, but people, who making everything on CPLD or Atmega converted electronics from art, which suppose to be, into the fastfood.

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kyuusaku
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Post by kyuusaku » Wed May 09, 2012 6:52 pm

What do you mean? Am I in some kind of competition? What will I win? lol

The original mapper is around 10 chips. What's the point of reimplementing that when it can be done better? With 6-8 chips the actual UOROM logic can be integrated so there isn't any slowdown. If I were to build something so obnoxious I'd rather go for a 15 chip MMC1 design, or 11 chip (IIRC) FME7.

Edit: It's nice to see passionate people, but I don't think you know how ridiculous your comment is. The truth of the matter is that discrete electronics are poor performers and circuit design and layout is often better optimized according to physics, not an individual's take on aesthetics. Maybe sometime you'll come around to believing that IP can be artistic. I might agree that IP implementations are rarely beautiful but rather the ideas are beautiful. I'm not sure if you're convicting LSI in general, but I think IC design is probably the highest form art in electronics, especially fully-custom designs.
Last edited by kyuusaku on Wed May 09, 2012 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MottZilla
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Post by MottZilla » Wed May 09, 2012 6:54 pm

CPLDs are more efficient. Saves board space too. Ofcourse discrete logic is friendlier to those unable to take advantage of CPLDs.

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Post by 80sFREAK » Wed May 09, 2012 7:14 pm

Competition? No, no way. It's about art, but you are too money/prize oriented. Want to join?

Art or fastfood. You choose. I understand advantages of CPLD if you doing commercial(say fastfood) project. My goal is make true vintage style device - how often CPLD's used back in time? So this is the answer, otherwise i would go just quietly reproduce this cart and sell "ready to eat" product

Sorry, i have to go. See you later. Don't flood the thread :wink:

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infiniteneslives
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Post by infiniteneslives » Wed May 09, 2012 7:54 pm

80sFREAK wrote:P.P.S. Sorry, dude, but people, who making everything on CPLD or Atmega converted electronics from art, which suppose to be, into the fastfood.
I want to argue so badly... But I know it's not worth the time or effort. My time is better spent designing 'fast food'

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kyuusaku
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Post by kyuusaku » Thu May 10, 2012 12:52 am

So ehrm yeah, new proposed parts list:
  • MMC3
  • '161
  • '161
  • '257
  • '257
  • '02
  • 4 pullups
  • RC POR
    ---
  • 27C080
  • 27C080
  • 27C040
  • 62C64
Features:
  • only 8-bit ROMs
  • under 2M of 20M wasted
  • integrated UOROM for slowdown-free Rockman 1 and 2
In authentic bootlegger style if I were to build this I'd opt for 2x PAL16L8 instead of the 74 series & pullups.

80sFREAK
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Post by 80sFREAK » Thu May 10, 2012 3:11 am

Oh, boy... I am so disappointed... Why do you trying to change specs? Can not copy simple chinese mapper?

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