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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:11 pm 
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Yes you are partially right about the costs, although this is all made on so many assumptions. I agree that even RGB is not very necessary for capturing video signal and coincidentally I noticed this is absolutely the WORST option to ever use as a capturing signal. Almost no off-the-shelf video capturing device supports RGB SCART natively for some reason. For the lower priced ones you usually have the option to capture composite or S-video and after that, you can capture component YPbPr on medium priced ones (which is the same comparing to RGB). On high end devices you can capture HDMI as described. RGB is just omitted in every aspect, so maybe the main focus for OP situation is maybe to consider other signal options as the cost differences may sometimes be unbelievably huge. As for my situation when I was streaming stuff from the real console, I used both composite for my TV and S-video for capture and it worked very good for me on a cheap capturing device

As for the console options and personal preferences and overall hipsterism I will not even try to start that topic as this is a completely different story and this situation is already so huge and unstoppable. Even though people still have personal preferences between new hardware and "old original" and I have nothing against this regardless


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:28 am 
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Capturing RGB now is easier than it ever has been. Two reasonably priced solutions are the Datapath E1/E1s cards, which on ebay can be purchased used for around $100, and the OSSC, which is a scaler that runs around $160 but is designed to make RGB very friendly to HDMI devices, whether they are capture cards or displays. Here are RGB captures with the Datapath E1s :

Image

Image

I loathed how my USB3HDCAP captured 240p RGB and Component Video sources. That device gives you no access to set the number of horizontal pixels, it stretched everything to 720 pixels, giving either a soft capture or unevenly sized pixels. Additionally I could not find drivers that would allow you to capture 240p RGB and Component, it was one or the either.

The NESRGB mod and the Hi-Def NES mod are non-destructive, if you implement the mod with appropriate tools. These mods install themselves into sockets, so if you want to reverse them it can be done. In fact, both mods allow you access to the original 2C02 PPU output if you wish to view it.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:57 am 
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I was under the impression that the use case was to the effect "I want the composite out to my CRT with 0 lag so I can use my Zapper or play Punch-Out!! and the RGB, HDMI, or whatever so I can capture it."

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:53 am 
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Great Hierophant wrote:
Capturing RGB now is easier than it ever has been. Two reasonably priced solutions are the Datapath E1/E1s cards, which on ebay can be purchased used for around $100, ...

Let's be real clear here about, i.e. talk reality and what the actual products are rather than shortened product names:

* Datapath VisionRGB-E1S: around US$1000 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$150, but more likely US$200+
* Datapath VisionRGB-E2S: around US$1450 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$550, but more likely US$600+

Relevant details best I can determine:

* Sellers of these cards are usually people in the medical industry offloading equipment due to downsizing.
* I have no idea what the drivers/interface looks like for these cards, what features they have (deinterlacing, scaling, aspect ratio tweaking, RGB depth/ordering, colour adjustment (this could be done elsewhere), etc.) as for whatever reason people using them almost never seem to demonstrate this. The user manual gives no details. The best I've found is this nebulous screen shot and a specific part of this video but for a DataPath VisionRGB-E1, which is a completely different card.
* Quite often the case mounting brackets on these cards is low-profile / half-height (intended for thinner PCs with less width/depth) and the sellers for whatever reason don't include the full-height bracket. Without the proper bracket, the card will sit loose in the slot/case and not be sturdy, i.e. will come out of the slot the instant you try and plug something into it.

You can find some example videos of captures with these cards on YouTube. What's amusing is that you pretty much can't find examples of "original" classic consoles (particularly the NES) being captured with them, only things like arcade JAMMA boards (understandable considering that they output RGB natively, and also tend to use weird horizontal scan rates) or "newer-ish" systems. I've only found a couple videos for SNES capture, and only one for Genesis/MD.

All that said:

Both of these cards are incredibly good capture devices, capturing at native resolution and frequency rate, and pretty much handle literally anything you throw at them. The cards are expensive as hell because they seem to be focused mainly on the medical industry (kinda like how Eizo monitors are often expensive for similar reasons). The usual buyers of them for retro capturing tend to be people who have a myriad of devices they want to capture, all with RGB output or RGB mods applied (please see my previous post), and not so much someone focusing on a single console. Hence I feel that if the only focal point is the NES, and if willing to give up use of a CRT, just buy an AVS and be done with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:24 pm 
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koitsu wrote:
Great Hierophant wrote:
Capturing RGB now is easier than it ever has been. Two reasonably priced solutions are the Datapath E1/E1s cards, which on ebay can be purchased used for around $100, ...

Let's be real clear here about, i.e. talk reality and what the actual products are rather than shortened product names:

* Datapath VisionRGB-E1S: around US$1000 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$150, but more likely US$200+
* Datapath VisionRGB-E2S: around US$1450 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$550, but more likely US$600+


Wow this is just ballz. Despite the previous poster called them "new and cheap alternative"...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm 
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koitsu wrote:
Great Hierophant wrote:
Capturing RGB now is easier than it ever has been. Two reasonably priced solutions are the Datapath E1/E1s cards, which on ebay can be purchased used for around $100, ...

Let's be real clear here about, i.e. talk reality and what the actual products are rather than shortened product names:

* Datapath VisionRGB-E1S: around US$1000 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$150, but more likely US$200+
* Datapath VisionRGB-E2S: around US$1450 new, if you're lucky you can find one used on eBay on rare occasion for US$550, but more likely US$600+

Relevant details best I can determine:

* Sellers of these cards are usually people in the medical industry offloading equipment due to downsizing.
* I have no idea what the drivers/interface looks like for these cards, what features they have (deinterlacing, scaling, aspect ratio tweaking, RGB depth/ordering, colour adjustment (this could be done elsewhere), etc.) as for whatever reason people using them almost never seem to demonstrate this. The user manual gives no details. The best I've found is this nebulous screen shot and a specific part of this video but for a DataPath VisionRGB-E1, which is a completely different card.
* Quite often the case mounting brackets on these cards is low-profile / half-height (intended for thinner PCs with less width/depth) and the sellers for whatever reason don't include the full-height bracket. Without the proper bracket, the card will sit loose in the slot/case and not be sturdy, i.e. will come out of the slot the instant you try and plug something into it.

You can find some example videos of captures with these cards on YouTube. What's amusing is that you pretty much can't find examples of "original" classic consoles (particularly the NES) being captured with them, only things like arcade JAMMA boards (understandable considering that they output RGB natively, and also tend to use weird horizontal scan rates) or "newer-ish" systems. I've only found a couple videos for SNES capture, and only one for Genesis/MD.

All that said:

Both of these cards are incredibly good capture devices, capturing at native resolution and frequency rate, and pretty much handle literally anything you throw at them. The cards are expensive as hell because they seem to be focused mainly on the medical industry (kinda like how Eizo monitors are often expensive for similar reasons). The usual buyers of them for retro capturing tend to be people who have a myriad of devices they want to capture, all with RGB output or RGB mods applied (please see my previous post), and not so much someone focusing on a single console. Hence I feel that if the only focal point is the NES, and if willing to give up use of a CRT, just buy an AVS and be done with it.


I may have been a bit too loose with my terminology, but the two cards you can find used at affordable prices are the Datapath VisionRGB-E1 and the Datapath VisionRGB-E1S. The only difference between these two cards is the bandwidth that the card can handle. The E1 is good enough for being able to work with one 1080p stream, the E1s can display two. The cards usually come with a low-profile bracket, but you can get a full-sized 3D printed bracket printed for less than $5.00. Used E1 cards can be found for just over $100, maybe less on a good day.

These cards can capture RGB 555, 565, or 888 and YUV 4:2:2. They can sample according to the pixel clock they detect. While it has a viewer program that is good for taking screenshots, you really need OBS or Amarec to really use the card to its fullest potential. They do not deinterlace and scaling is best left to OBS or Amarec.

They are something of a "hidden treasure" still, but with the vintage consoles you need RGB cables and adapters to get the RGB to the DVI connector. Voultar has graciously donated his time to design several boards for free which can serve needs such as SCART to DVI and such. I do not have any RGB modded NESs, only an Nt Mini and I would typically prefer to capture HDMI from that device. Similarly, for SNES and Genesis, I don't have RGB cables and adapters, so I use the HDMI from the Super Nt and Mega Sg for capture.

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