this is what we can expect when the k-ster does pcm on nes?

Discuss NSF files, FamiTracker, MML tools, or anything else related to NES music.

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jargon
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this is what we can expect when the k-ster does pcm on nes?

Post by jargon » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:04 pm

Rather Good :: Gay Bar

>o< Weeeeow!

sorry couldn't resist.

i have been working on PCM for NES too without much success though.

I'd link the PCM's i made for NES but i lost the link. :(

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(they sell plushies now!, its holiday time click thru to buy people presents at the store. just a lil help from me with holiday presents sorry. x.x)

-edit- will upload a link to my NES friendly PCMs when i find the link sorry!
Last edited by jargon on Sun Dec 16, 2007 11:41 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Dwedit
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Post by Dwedit » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:15 pm

This post is just a link to an old flash movie, and doesn't contain anything NES related. Please add the NES related stuff instead of just saying "It exists but I lost it".
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jargon
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Post by jargon » Sun Dec 16, 2007 4:39 pm

jargon's PCM Chiptunes

note these don't come with PCM player for NES but are small enough to fit within a mapper. :)

me making this is what pushed Kevtris toward working on a PCM player for NES.

he didn't want a total n00b covering ground he hasn't yet imo
kevtris on IRC wrote:PCM on NES is impossible. just give up.
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Post by atari2600a » Mon Dec 17, 2007 8:24 am

lol, Kevtris said something similar when I was talking about the DMC channel. I threw the 80's Doctor Who theme through Audacity (MP3 > 8KHz 8-bit mono WAV) & then through a DMC converter (had to use DOSemu to get it working under linux; Wine just didn't cut it). For the few seconds it was, it sounded pretty decent. Once I get back in school later next month, I'm planning on writing a very quick demo to play through the whole thing (or at least a cut loop), on an MMC3 mapper probably...

Code: Select all

          *=$0000
loop      JMP loop
          .eof

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Memblers
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Post by Memblers » Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:43 pm

Just so you know, the PCM channel is 7-bit rather than 8. So, at some point, shift it all right by one bit.

I wrote a PCM player too, but cheating in a major way. I used a PIC microcontroller to get 4 channels (with independent freq/volume) of output at 22050Hz. NES just gets a sample IRQ and plays it, like a PC can do with a soundblaster.

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Post by blargg » Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:35 pm

So not only can the NES play PCM samples, it can even stream them from another computer connected to it!

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Post by tepples » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:42 pm

True, but if you're doing a sprite DMA, the sound will lag. The Famicom and SNES/SFC solved this by putting the DAC on the cart and passing analog audio to the mixer.

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Post by jargon » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:14 pm

Dwedit's avatar makes me want to do naughty things to it o.o
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Post by Zepper » Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:13 am

- Well, DMC has another meaning on NES level, as "Delta Modulation Channel". However, we have the PCM which meaning has more relevance (Pulse-code modulation).

- For my best, PCM is more "correct".

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Post by kevtris » Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:25 pm

jargon wrote:jargon's PCM Chiptunes

note these don't come with PCM player for NES but are small enough to fit within a mapper. :)

me making this is what pushed Kevtris toward working on a PCM player for NES.

he didn't want a total n00b covering ground he hasn't yet imo
kevtris on IRC wrote:PCM on NES is impossible. just give up.
Please stop with the personal attacks against me, and bogus quoting.

You wanted to store several minutes of music on a 256K ROM from what I recall. *THAT* is what I said was impossible to do. Obviously it's not impossible to play PCM. It's simply impossible to store say, 2-3 minutes of PCM at 22KHz and hope to fit it into 256Kbytes, which is what you wanted to do. 3 minutes ends up being around 4Mbytes. You'd need 16x compression to achieve that. While possible on a PC, decoding that in real time on an NES is not possible without some kind of DSP on a cart.

atari2600: I didn't say it was impossible, I said that it's useless to try to store alot of music (i.e. a complete song is what you wanted to store, as I recall). The amount of ROM space would be huge. And as I recall saying, sure you can do it if you want 2Mbytes of ROM just for the audio. i.e. it IS possible, but not practical.
/* this is a comment */

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Post by tepples » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:57 pm

kevtris wrote:You wanted to store several minutes of music on a 256K ROM from what I recall. *THAT* is what I said was impossible to do. Obviously it's not impossible to play PCM. It's simply impossible to store say, 2-3 minutes of PCM at 22KHz and hope to fit it into 256Kbytes, which is what you wanted to do.
Who said anything about 22 kHz? My 4-bit codec could fit 2 minutes of 8000 Hz mono audio into 512 KiB, no sweat.
atari2600: I didn't say it was impossible, I said that it's useless to try to store alot of music (i.e. a complete song is what you wanted to store, as I recall).
But given the amount of repetition in a lot of modern popular songs, it just might be possible using the Space Racer technique. I counted only about 30 unique measures in the first two verses of "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley, known on the internets as the song from the "Rick Roll" fad. At that song's tempo (roughly 112.5 BPM), 30 measures equal 64 seconds of unique audio.

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Post by blargg » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:56 am

kevtris wrote:Please stop with the personal attacks against me, and bogus quoting. By the way, I club baby seals for fun.
Don't worry, most of us take the source into consideration as well...

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Post by tepples » Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:35 pm

So we have allegations of a personal attack on one hand, and wild claims for audio compression with real-time NES playback on the other hand. Let's take this one step at a time:
jargon wrote:Rather Good :: Gay Bar

>o< Weeeeow!

sorry couldn't resist.
What is this supposed to mean?
blargg wrote:
kevtris wrote:Please stop with the personal attacks against me, and bogus quoting. By the way, I club baby seals for fun.
Don't worry, most of us take the source into consideration as well...
If you search for seal clubbing on ytmnd.com, you get both the animal cruelty meaning as well as a dancing marine mammal in a disco.

But does anyone really want to get rickrolled through an NES emulator? I've prototyped the backing track as an S3M, over which I can put PCM lyrics.

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best plan ever ever evar

Post by B00daW » Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:54 pm

tepples wrote:But does anyone really want to get rickrolled through an NES emulator? I've prototyped the backing track as an S3M, over which I can put PCM lyrics.
You ruined it.

Best plan:

Code a menu with PRESS START for the Wild Boys "prototype," then steal rips from the many Mario flash movies to have Mario dance for you during the standard Rickrollation.

K?

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Post by Dwedit » Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:50 pm

tepples wrote: But does anyone really want to get rickrolled through an NES emulator? I've prototyped the backing track as an S3M, over which I can put PCM lyrics.
Needs more "attack" envelope on the lead synth strings.
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