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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:15 pm 
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Alright.. we can try this. I think this is all the files, except for the individual page scans.

ed2k://|file|Famicom%20Kaizou%20Manual%20Vol3-BW-Press%20Quallity.pdf|17486425|BC929095E01D9BC5BF8572C237B626AA|h=ZD56PWQ675KM4X4TIBONQNWETD3U43Q2|/|sources,69.136.7.34:4900|/
ed2k://|file|Famicom%20Remodeling%20Manual%20Vol%203-BW.doc|6758912|44DF2925B0EF609DF7173035D8FD2162|h=Q6NMWOOIWKLZ65AF3YGS2WKDARBMT6OO|/|sources,69.136.7.34:4900|/
ed2k://|file|Famicom%20Remodeling%20Manual%20Vol%203-Press%20Quality.pdf|56663041|E0B925F26F41E9CA7D540CC840100A77|h=MYKVPUH42Y5I7HKYLGHEYWQS5ZCTGBMY|/|sources,69.136.7.34:4900|/
ed2k://|file|FDS%20Copy%20Tool%20Jap%20Text.doc|8135168|FF2CCC2F01652F4D191809E3A4CABCCB|h=F4S3ZPY2OUXYRXFM76YHFHENQDSG5KFH|/|sources,69.136.7.34:4900|/


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:09 pm 
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Quote:
Yea, I wanted to read the detail text and figure out the schematic of the doc so I can build this bad boy. Just posting the text will be good. I can see what the parts are and what the reasoning etc .

Thanks,

-CFB


Well, I didn't want to do that because it would take 100 years to copy and paste all the text boxes and plus, considering all the work that went into these docs, I really wanted people to get the full effect. :-)

Oh, it looks like Membllers posted them all. Awesome! Thanks, Memblers! You rock!

Please let me know what you think, folks.

-Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:48 am 
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ChimyFolkButter wrote:
kyuusaku wrote:
You don't need Copy Tool to dump disks ;)


I want to get the circuit to bypass the evil twin chips so I can write my disks.

I tried FDSLOADR for reading the disks but I couldn't test it correctly by writing the dump to disk.

-CFB

Don't write over any "broken" disks! With some persistence I've managed to read dozens of err 22,24,27 disks. If you want to verify your dumps, open them with a hex editor, it will be easy to see if you're on the right track.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:40 am 
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Sometimes you can do several runs to get the files that you missed when you get a bad read. Say you can't get the disk dumped in one pass---you get a few bad passes and you can then splice them together, but I'm not sure how...I've only heard of it. Kyuusaku?

Yeah, definitley don't delete "bad" disks, unless you really don't want the data on it and/or have already backed up the data on it. If it's a bad read, chances are the data is in there, more than likely, just your drive isn't in tip-top shape to read it. Sometimes an overwrite can help remagnetize the disk, but make sure you've attempted to backed it up first.

As far as I know, you can only write the WHOLE disk, not parts of it, so unlike floppies, it really is best to be sure with these before you go overwriting them. It's just the way the Quickdisk format was designed. Well, I suppose this puts save files into question though....unless of course, the whole game and the save file is rewritten at the same time every time a save file is saved...I'm not sure actually. Maybe someone knows this?

-Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:04 pm 
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Location: NE Indiana, USA (NTSC)
I imagine that rewriting savegames involves reading the game code, ignoring it, and then switching to writing once the head gets to a given sector.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:06 pm 
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Quote:
imagine that rewriting savegames involves reading the game code, ignoring it, and then switching to writing once the head gets to a given sector.


Well, like I said, I didn't think it could do that...my understanding was that the QD format takes an all or nothing approach. With the disk side already in RAM, I guess it would make sense if it wrote the whole side with the save file over at the same time...kind of a crappy way of doing it, but my understanding was that the qd format just isn't that dynamic, which is why it never really caught on in too many computers. It was faster, but not too versatile.

Of course, any corrections to my notions of its writing techniques are most welcome.

-Rob


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 9:22 pm 
Copynes updates:

I received parts for the CopyNES kits/boards/etc... and boards are still on order. I haven't gotten an update yet on PCB production, so once I get that I will forward it.

I socketed my CopyNES BIOS and added the 6502 emulator stuff to it last night and have used it successfully to reverse engineer a 'copy protected' fami cart! It worked much better than I could ever have hoped.

The cart in question is "Earthworm Jim 2". It used just absolutely stupid levels of protection in the code, including 3 hash routines, dynamic code generation, and lots of other crap. Long story short, the game now runs in Nintendulator. I made a text file with info on how it was cracked, complete with a commented disassembly and such:

http://tripoint.org/kevtris/mappers/inc ... j2prot.txt

After doing this, I found a few things I will change in the emulator to make it work even better...

BTW, does anyone have a working Panda Prince fami "pirate original" cart? I have one, but it doesn't work any more. It uses a similar protection to this EWJ2 cart. I have a ROM dump I made before the cart died, but it does me no good without a working cart. I just need to borrow it for awhile to trace the code in a similar fashion to this EWJ2.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:26 am 
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I have Panda Prince cart copy protected.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:12 am 
rbudrick wrote:
Sometimes you can do several runs to get the files that you missed when you get a bad read. Say you can't get the disk dumped in one pass---you get a few bad passes and you can then splice them together, but I'm not sure how...I've only heard of it. Kyuusaku?

I suppose you could splice together failed reads with a file compare utility assuming both are the same size but how would you know which is valid?

rbudrick wrote:
As far as I know, you can only write the WHOLE disk, not parts of it, so unlike floppies, it really is best to be sure with these before you go overwriting them. It's just the way the Quickdisk format was designed. Well, I suppose this puts save files into question though....unless of course, the whole game and the save file is rewritten at the same time every time a save file is saved...I'm not sure actually. Maybe someone knows this?

You can write parts of the disk, but the drive does have to make a full pass every time since it can't seek.

PS, let's start another FDS thread, we're kinda taking over Kevtris'


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 6:13 am 
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^ == Me


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 7:04 am 
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http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopi ... =5931#5931

Very good point, Kyuusaku. Sorry, Kev!

Very cool EWJ2 work, Kev. It's amazing how clever some of those pirates were.

-Rob


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:24 am 
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Why do pirate companies design such ridiculously complicated copy protection schemes? Do they do it as exercises in electrical engineering and 6502 coding? Are they afraid that Nintendo or the third party they stole the game from will have an easier time suing them in court with the code? Are they afraid of people distributing their ROMs and played on emulators instead of buying cartridges? Or is it to stop competitors from including their hacked game on their competitors cartridges?

I think the first and last are by far the most likely. I don't know what the profits are like on pirate cartridges, but I can't imagine them being very high. Nintendo rarely goes after pirates these days because they are hard to find and track down. Back in the day, they could prove an infringement case without the code, all they have to do was to show the similarities during gameplay.

I am sure even pirates take pride in their convoluted schemes. Equally, they don't appreciate the competition in the next two-bit factory over putting out the cartriges they worked so hard to port to the 8-bit hardware. The joys of a free market!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:35 am 
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Looks like steal games from pirates is much easier than from nintendo, because pirates couldn't pursuit for stealing it's "copyrights". ;)
Btw, copy protection schemes at all do not stopping copying of hacked versions. ;) I've released some time ago hacked version of that EWJ2 pirate...
Another way to preserve copyrights is EasterEggs, like in most JY games (mapper 90) and also in some Shin-Shin games (EWJ2, EWJ3, DKC2)...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:47 am 
CaH4e3 wrote:
Looks like steal games from pirates is much easier than from nintendo, because pirates couldn't pursuit for stealing it's "copyrights". ;)
Btw, copy protection schemes at all do not stopping copying of hacked versions. ;) I've released some time ago hacked version of that EWJ2 pirate...
Another way to preserve copyrights is EasterEggs, like in most JY games (mapper 90) and also in some Shin-Shin games (EWJ2, EWJ3, DKC2)...


Yeah... It's pretty ironic- the pirates write an original game instead of just copying it, and now they want to prevent OTHER pirates from copying it!!! That's the long and short of it I think.

Also yah I downloaded the copy of it you have which was hacked for MMC3 from what I remember. The game seems to use what I call the "submapper" (gotten thru regs at 5800 and 5801) to do the protection routines, and then they switch it off and go with the regular "MMC3" after the protection is done (vectoring all writes to it through RAM to prevent easy hacking). So a determined hacker probably wouldn't have too much trouble porting it to MMC3. Though, the MMC3 it uses has the register writes moved around! The registers are not in the normal order. The just had to make life a bit more "interesting" I guess.

Oh yeah I still have those sachen games I need to send you and some other stuff. I lost your email addy since I moved. BTW do you think I could borrow your Panda Prince cart some time so I can figure that protection out? Doing EWJ2 was kind of a test to see how well I could break this kind of protection, and it looks like it was a success.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:04 pm 
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Changing registers order is common thing for such carts as I see, mostly "Super Games" titles are have mixed up internal registers and registers mapping to CPU memory space. But one interesting thing: permutation table for H2288 the same as for mapper 114 and 182 (maybe more, i need to collect all known info for cleaning mapper stuff. so many duplicated aor similar mappers... blah...).

Sure, I'll borrow you my Panda Prince, maybe some other carts I have... I have original version of Sonic 3D blast, with the same type of board as Panda (Panda have A9712 number, Sonic A9711)... Original copy protected Somari (not so heavy protection, just some lock register or something... And some more... ;) Just now I haven't any device that will be able to reverse this hardware... If situation is not changed, my carts will be in your CopyNES. ;))

my mail cah4e3 at mail dot ru you are welcome ;)


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