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PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:36 pm 
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I own a pirate nes console and a pirate nes cartridge (both of them are 60 pin). Recently I have translated a nes game to my native language and I can play it on my computer without any trouble but I really want to play it on my nes console! How can I do it? Can someone help me?
Thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:58 am 
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What kind of cartridge is it, and have you taken it apart? You'll want one that uses normal memory chips, a lot of pirate carts that I've seen use glop-tops and you can't rewire anything (not easily) since there is no removable chip (just a blob of epoxy).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:18 am 
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Memblers wrote:
What kind of cartridge is it, and have you taken it apart? You'll want one that uses normal memory chips, a lot of pirate carts that I've seen use glop-tops and you can't rewire anything (not easily) since there is no removable chip (just a blob of epoxy).


I just want to play my desired nes game on my own 60 pin nes console. Please tell me the best way.

And this is my 60 pin cartridge :

Image


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:52 am 
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That's a glop, and gloptops can't be reprogrammed. Either they use mask ROM, in which case they really can't, or they use flash memory, in which case none of us is likely to learn how.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Alright, I can't reprogram my own nes cartridge. How about building my own cartridge?
I have already searched google and I could find some sporadic document about making a programble nes cartridge :

Main Guide :
http://www.raphnet.net/electronique/nes_cart/nes_cart_en.php

ROM Splitter :
http://www.romhacking.net/utils/683/

Image

NES ROM Pinouts :
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt

EPROM Pinouts :
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt

Famicom Cartridge Connector Pinout :
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt

From above documents I find out to this extent :

1. First I need to split my rom to two binary files "chr.bin" and "prg.bin" by using ROM Splitter.
2. Then I need two AT27C010 (128K) flash chips 32 pin sockets.
3. I need a Universal programer
4. A software for writing these two bin files ("chr.bin" and "prg.bin") to each AT27C010.

OK please tell me what software I need to use in step 4? Then introduce me some good document about mappers and what kind of information I need to know for this job?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:33 pm 
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The software used to write the ROMs is specific to the chip programmer.

The mapper in this case is MMC3, there's not a cheap and easy way to build the cart from scratch. There are some pirate carts that have an MMC3 clone chip, the AX5202. But anything made recently is probably a gloptop.

The surest way may be to import an original Famicom cart that uses the MMC3 and same size ROMs. Most of the info around here is specific to NES carts, but I'm sure that in 99% of the cases the board-type etc. should apply the same.

Actually at the moment I'm not sure where the list is of board types, anyone know?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Memblers wrote:
The surest way may be to import an original Famicom cart that uses the MMC3 and same size ROMs.

Agreed that donor carts are probably the most reliable way to get ASIC mappers other than MMC1.

Quote:
Actually at the moment I'm not sure where the list is of board types, anyone know?

Subcats of Cat:Mappers. Tennessee CV used to maintain a list of boards used by North American games.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:58 pm 
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Bootgod's database is a good place to look for games that use the same board. Find out the name of the board the game you want to make a cart of and then look for other games that use the same board.

From the info you posted, this game appears to use a TLROM board, which is the simplest type of MMC3 board. Not only it is very common, but you can also use some of the more complex MMC3 boards (TKROM, TSROM) and the game will run just fine (it will simply ignore the extra RAM and battery that might be present, since TLROM boards don't have those).

Once you have a cart that uses the correct board you have to desolder the original ROMs, burn your hack to EPROMs/FlashROMs using an EPROM programmer, and solder those to the board, rewiring the few pins that are arranged differently between the old chips and the new ones.

Since EPROM programmers are not exactly cheap, of course you will only want to get one if you plan on making more carts in the future. If you are instead planning on making a single cart it would be better to get someone to program the chips for you. Usually it's possible to find stores that offer EPROM programming services, but if you can't find any, most people who own a programmer would do it for you, you'd just have to pay the shipping.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:06 pm 
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Thanks to all of you.

I am not worry about the programmer because one of my neighborhoods promise me to provide it for me. He is working on programing Digital LED Board for public places. (I don't know what is the exact name of them in English)

I found the exact game board (Wow it is 60 pin, really interesting) :
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/profile.php?id=2163

I want to make an exact board instead of using a same game board (because I think it is hard to find the same board and making one according to the pictures is more simple) :


Front :

Image


Back :

Image


So I need a board like this (I don't know it's name in English)

Image

Then I have to make it 60 pin by using spesial acid and boardmarker.

Now questions :
1. Still, I don't know exactly what software I need to program AT27C010.
Technical info of AT27C010 :
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc0321.pdf

2. What are the extra stuff (a resistor, an IC and ..) on the original board in the above picture? What are their specifications?

3. I don't need to worry about CIC Lockout (because the whole project is pirate as well as the above picture, since it is 60 pin), do I?

4. Why one of IC in the picture is 28 pin (PRG) and the other is 32 pin (CHR)?

5. Is it possible to replace two IC in the picture with two AT27C010? Are their pinouts the same?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:51 pm 
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1. You can be sure that any decent chip programmer will support it. There is probably an option for "27C010" which should be able to work with it. I know with the AT27C roms however, on my programmer I had to change a setting with a jumper on the board or it wouldn't burn right. I would guess a better programmer would be able to identify it though.

2. MMC3C is a custom chip by Nintendo, there is nowhere you can get this except from an NES or Famicom cartridge. So there's not much hope in building it from scratch. But also, C1 is maybe a 10uF cap, and C2 is likely a .1uF capacitor. I'm not sure about that cap that's by the MMC3 though.

3. Nope, lockout is only a problem on the front-loading NES.

4. Good question, I don't know. I think they always used 32-pin for 128kB CHR ROM, but 28-pin for 128kB PRG-ROM.

5. Pinouts aren't the same. See these docs:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt

btw a couple words you were looking for, for the LED sign perhaps marquee, and for the board, perf-board (perforated) - AKA prototyping board and other names.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:16 am 
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FARID, building your own board from scratch will be really hard. I don't think there is a simple/efficient way to create the connector pins, and you also have to worry about the thickness of the board: if it's too thin it will not make good contact, but if it's too thick it might ruin the cartridge slot in your console.

So even if you wanted to build your own board, I'd suggest you use the connector from an existing board and glue them together somehow. But like Memblers said, the MMC3 chip can't be obtained from anywhere else than existing carts, so you will have to obtain an original MMC3 game anyway, and since you'd have the board already it would be better to use it than to make your own.

If the game used a simpler discrete logic mapper (such as CNROM or UNROM), it would be possible to build it from standard logic chips you can buy anywhere, but the connector would still be an issue.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:02 pm 
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I am living in IRAN. Although there is not much good things here, I believe here is paradise!

Anyway I am sure, I can't find any similar board here. So it seems that I have to play my good old nes games on my good new computer!

But one more thing who made those 60 pin pirate cartridges that even after about twenty years there is not anyway to reprogram them or make a similar one? Were they aliens?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:10 pm 
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FARID wrote:
So I need a board like this (I don't know it's name in English)

Image


That is called a "Breadboard" in English. It's a weird name. According to Wikipedia, it's because people used to use actual cutting boards to prototype electronics.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:24 pm 
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Quote:


But one more thing who made those 60 pin pirate cartridges that even after about twenty years there is not anyway to reprogram them or make a similar one? Were they aliens?

No, they were made by Chineese (or similar countries) pirates. All they wanted is to produce as many cartridge as possible for very cheap. You can tell the quality of the plastic and art label is by far not on par with actual Nintendo carts.

And in the inside, instead of having true chips that are soldered on a board like most Nintendo carts, they just have the silicon die "glued" directly on the board, and protected by an epoxy blob (by looking at your picutre, it seems one die isn't even protected by epoxy, how CHEAP). I guess this technique was cheaper for very large productions. It was used for many pirated games (but not all of them), but also for many legitimate Japanese games (especially the ones by companies who made their own carts like Namco, but also from Nintendo). Only the SMB/Duck Hunt or similar cartridges that were sold together with the NES system are using epoxy blobs in western 72-pin legitimate Nintendo cartridges.

I hope this anwers your questions. If you want to reprogram a cartridge, you'll have a hard time if all you have is pirate carts. Even pirate carts using true chips are likely to use a werid mapper - your best bet is to find a true chip cart with a MMC3 clone on it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:22 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
If you want to reprogram a cartridge, you'll have a hard time if all you have is pirate carts. Even pirate carts using true chips are likely to use a werid mapper - your best bet is to find a true chip cart with a MMC3 clone on it.

I'm not sure if this will help, but, Megaman III I believe is a MMC3 chip.

You might want to check Datacrystal.org because they list what types of chips games are.


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