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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:07 am 
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Regarding MD vs. SNES:

My personal preference is that in the hands of an AAA musician, SNES sound > MD sound but I think both sound fantastic when properly applied.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUwg-n1GgOo
I wouldn't mind hearing that out of an MD port. I like the SNES one a little better (trumpets+'capcom guitar' are cool =)) but the MD take on it is really decent.

I have an easier time dealing with shitty SNES audio than I do with shitty MD audio though. The latter is so much nastier IMHO.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:44 am 
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if it was up to me, RPGs would not exist...

I personally don't see SNES sound being something too nice... I have been slowly going through a SPC set I downloaded but I've yet to find something I really like on all aspects.

http://8bc.org/music/TmEE/Guile+Theme/
I need to finish this one off someday...

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:19 am 
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For soundtrack on the megadrive, you should try:

- Street of rage series
- Castlevania: Bloodline (@Bregalad: if you never played, you should)
- Midnight resistance
- Contra hard corp
- Shinobi
- Phantasy star 4 (What was played was a good RPG)

Some others that slip my mind.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:07 am 
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Ristar is something that has extremely well done soundtrack (plus not so good dual channel PCM playback)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:08 am 
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Here are a few more examples:

Alien Soldier
Red Zone
Gods, more Gods


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:09 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
And I'm sorry, but the sound on the MD is HORRIBLE. Those videos just reminded it to me the hard way. Any noise out of it just make my hears bleed. Perhaps it's those unfiltered very high frequencies that hurts my heardrums.

NES through a composite filter also produces unfiltered high frequencies. I connected to a sound card, ran a recording through a spectrogram, and saw overtones all the way up to 20 kHz.

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Or it's just it remind me how MIDIs sounded on my very old pc - that is that they sounded like crap.

Yes, both the AdLib card (used for MIDI on old PC prior to software wavetable mixing) and the MD use a Yamaha FM synthesizer. But then I guess you hate 80s pop music, as a lot of it was made with a DX7 keyboard, which uses the same synth chip used in the MD.

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It's just that I'm into RPGs

Then I guess you're a fan of PlayStation as opposed to Nintendo 64.

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Maybe a better example would be GBA vs PSP. When the PSP came out is was maybe 800 times supperior to the GBA in terms of graphics and sound.

Yet one notable launch title on the PSP wasted most of this power. So I cloned it for GBA to prove this point.

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Nevertheless I always prefered the GBA console and games by a LONG way, but I won't try to find stupid arguments to prove the GBA's nonexistent technical superiority.

The proper comparison in this case would be Dreamcast vs. PS2, or two DS systems vs. one PSP that you and your buddy have to take turns on.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:31 am 
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But then I guess you hate 80s music

Not at all ! FM sound can be okay mixed with something else. Yes I know the MD also had Square Wave channels, but few games used it - those who did sounds a bit better though. My point is that it is in all cases much more limited than wave-table sound which is basically limited only to the amount of memory you dispose for samples. Which implies the technical superiority of the SNES.
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Then I guess you're a fan of PlayStation as opposed to Nintendo 64.

You bet it !
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Red Zone
Gods, more Gods

Sounds horrible IMO.
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Alien Soldier

This one sounds good. Was it really done with a MD ? I'm really doubtful. If that's the case then 99% of MD games did a horrible use of the hardware.
Quote:

Sounds perfectly ok, but definitely it sounds very synthetic compared to what the SNES can do.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:41 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
My point is that it is in all cases much more limited than wave-table sound which is basically limited only to the amount of memory you dispose for samples.

Having to spend memory for samples takes away from making your RPG longer, and copying samples into SPC memory results in those two-second freezes (MARIO START!) common to Super NES games. Nintendo also charged more for memory than Sega did; the Super NES version of Shaq-Fu (not that it was a good game, but bear with me) had a limited character roster for just this reason.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:11 am 
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Street of rage 2: Go straight (stage 1-1)
Street of rage 2: Expender (stage 7-2) One of my favorite. During that stage, it really put you in the mood.
Street of rage 2: Never return alive (boss theme)
Midnight resitance: Flood of power
The super shinobi First level
Castlevania bloodlines Simon's theme
Castlevania bloodlines Stage 1
Castlevania bloodlines stage 2

You could put easily the complete street of rage 1&2 and the other ones the same author did. There is some nice music if you take the time to search for it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:50 am 
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Quote:
Quote:
Alien Soldier

This one sounds good. Was it really done with a MD ? I'm really doubtful.

The Megadrive was the only console it was released on.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:06 am 
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Ristar - Ring Rink - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j770GDNZ1b4
Ristar - Final Boss - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GmSH_UDrRA

Radical Rat (:P) - One Last Step - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M2szG4maJo

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:05 am 
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Hey! What's with the Megadrive/Genesis bashing??? :(

I'm all for getting the facts straight, but the Genesis was a damn fine system (more memorable to me than the SNES, despite having some fun with SNES RPGs). I can understand that some dislike that FM sound, and that mentality was heavier back in the day when FM was sounding tired and old, and the SNES was something new/different/exciting. But this day and age? I love all those classic sounds/musics. From nes to md to even snes. And there are some really incredible sound tracks of Genesis games that break away from that normal/traditional FM sound. I was grinding through Phantasy Star 2 on the 360 the other day, loving that old familiar/traditional FM sound track. Love that RPG, even if it is a grind fest (worst than DQ 1).


Last edited by tomaitheous on Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:06 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
I'm sure someone will point me to MD RPGs, pehaps some good ones, but to be honest I'll likely not be playing them more than a few minutes.

And this is part of the problem. With the SNES you have the nostalgia factor, you are not only listening to the music, you recognize the tunes and have fond memories of them, while you have never played a Genesis game for more than a few minutes in your life and are only analyzing them in a rushed, purely technical way.

If you don't like how the MD sounds, there is nothing I can do to change your mind, but what I simply don't understand is how you can say that the SNES sounds perfect, when a lot of the games sound like you have your head stuck into a bucket. So the only conclusion I can get to is that you end up ignoring the flaws of the SNES because of your love for the games. And if you are never really gonna experiment (i.e. play for more than a few minutes) some good games on the MD (which exist for sure, or the system wouldn't have lived for so long), that's something you are never gonna have with it.

To be perfectly honest, I think all of these old consoles sound bad from a technical point of view (the NES can be ear-bleeding bad in a lot of games, much more so than the MD), but I'm willing to look (or hear) past that if the melodies are good. To me the melodies are much more important than the instruments that are playing them.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:37 am 
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Banshaku wrote:
Street of rage 2: Go straight (stage 1-1)

Now THAT man is a great song ! I remember someone already presented it to me to show off the MD's sound capabilities, and I have to agree its a real good song. FM instruments just happen to work very well with this style of music. However, for many styles of music, it won't work well. With the SNES you're free to play wathever instrument you like.
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Street of rage 2: Expender (stage 7-2) One of my favorite. During that stage, it really put you in the mood.

This is the prime example of what I said above sounds terrible. The very loud trebbles in the 10k-20k ranges makes my headrums bleed and I can't physically stand to listen this without turning the volume down. (This has nothing to do with me prefering Nintendo over Sega or anything)

Quote:
The super shinobi First level

Again, a pretty good song ! Not nearly as good as the first one, but shows something decent done with FM.
Quote:
Castlevania bloodlines Simon's theme

MAN HOW DO YOU DARE !! If you want to advocate the MD you just made an magnificent auto-goal. This is perhaps one of the best song ever made on the SNES, and this version sounds like total shit. I'm sorry but it really does.
Quote:
Castlevania bloodlines Stage 1
Castlevania bloodlines stage 2

To be honest CV Bloodline's music, while not horrible or anything, is really so-so. I know the game is very good as I played it under emulation - but the music isn't a prime example of what the MD can do (especially compared to what other people posted here).
The Stage 2 sound better remixed in Circle of the Moon BTW.

And, folks, I'm sorry for "Bashing" your beloved MD or anyhting. It's just that this is a Nintendo forum - and a lot of guys keeps denying the obvious that the MD is technically much more limited than the SNES. That doesn't mean all MD games are bad - nor that all SNES are great or anything like that. It's just the people should admit the obvious - FM sound can do great things, people posted links to proof that and they were very interesting to listen, but most games used it poorly or even horriby. If I want to compose a MD song, I know it will be a total headache to make it sound good you have to know some math formulas etc... - while on the SNES all it takes is to pick up my favourite insturments and convert them to BRR (as long as it don't exceed some RAM limit).

(And BTW FM soud theoretically should brig me nostalgia of my old PC. However it doesn't really I'm glad not to have to suffer this any longer. The GM instruments sounded especially bad on it.)

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:50 am 
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Bregalad wrote:
This is the prime example of what I said above sounds terrible. The very loud trebbles in the 10k-20k ranges makes my headrums bleed and I can't physically stand to listen this without turning the volume down. (This has nothing to do with me prefering Nintendo over Sega or anything)


You won't like listening music in my place then :P

I boost freqs above 8KHz at least 12db, to get really crisp and bright sound, and the point of my sound mods are to lift up the lowpass filter points above hearing rane so that the high freq content comes through... I really hate how SNEs just is unable to represent things above 12ish KHz well (the sample rate allows for 16KHz, but the interpolation and DSP filter kills a big chunk of it)... SNES sounds so damn bad because of it, like a shitty AM radio, while MD is studio grade equipment / high end HiFi on that regard.

My EQ settings : http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/21/ ... ttings.jpg

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