How to Dump

Discuss hardware-related topics, such as development cartridges, CopyNES, PowerPak, EPROMs, or whatever.

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FARID
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How to Dump

Post by FARID » Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:58 am

How can I dump this cartridge :

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Last edited by FARID on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

person
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Post by person » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:13 am

The middle blob is the mapper, and since it has at least 32 pins coming from it, I guess it's a MMC3 or something from about the same time. This is of course with the assumption that Famicom games usually uses the same mappers as NES games.

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FARID
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Post by FARID » Sun Jun 19, 2011 11:34 pm

Dumping successfully done :

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But I don't know how to adjust the iNes header. I have just these information :

This is a pirate 7 in 1 cartridge based on MMC3. All of its including games are MMC3 (TLROM) :
Captain America and The Avengers (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)
Contra Force (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)
Monster In My Pocket (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)
RoboCop (TL1ROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)
Somari (Unl) (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:256k - CHR-ROM:256k)
Super Spy Hunter (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles - Tournament Fighters (TLROM, Mapper 4 - PRG-ROM:128k - CHR-ROM:128k)

PRG Size is 1MB (1,048,576 bytes)
CHR Size is 1MB (1,048,576 bytes)

Please help me adjust the the header.

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infiniteneslives
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Post by infiniteneslives » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:52 am

I don't know everything about this stuff but I think it's going to be a little tricky because the header denoted mapper would have to be the mapper number for the 7in1 not mapper 4 which is what each game runs off of once the rom is selected.

BTW look in the documents here and you should be able to find all the other file header info you need.

Even if you find and assign the proper mapper (not MMC3 #4) I'm not sure if you're planning on playing this game on a emulator but you may have problems finding an emu that supports. Once again the thing you need to find out is if there has been a mapper number assigned to this or similar enough multi carts.

If it's common enough of a mapper you may not have any of these issues though.

How'd you end up dumping it? That looks like a pretty interesting dumper you've got there...

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FARID
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Post by FARID » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:35 am

I don't know everything about this stuff but I think it's going to be a little tricky because the header denoted mapper would have to be the mapper number for the 7in1 not mapper 4 which is what each game runs off of once the rom is selected.

BTW look in the documents here and you should be able to find all the other file header info you need.

Even if you find and assign the proper mapper (not MMC3 #4) I'm not sure if you're planning on playing this game on a emulator but you may have problems finding an emu that supports. Once again the thing you need to find out is if there has been a mapper number assigned to this or similar enough multi carts.

If it's common enough of a mapper you may not have any of these issues though.
I feel that it is Mapper 044. Example Game (Super Big 7-in-1) :

Mapper 44 information

But I couldn't get it worked. I am sure that the dumped PRG and CHR are correct because I compared them with individual games they are identical (though at PRG there are some more bytes for selection screen)

How'd you end up dumping it? That looks like a pretty interesting dumper you've got there...
Actually it is not a dumper! It is just a regular Willem Programmer :

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I identified the glop tops pinout which are 27C080 and connect every pin to the corresponding pin on the programmer then regular chip reading progress ... but in this way the cartridge have been screwed up completely!

At this project I found some theoretical things about AX5202P :

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MMC3 glop top pinout is exactly like AX5202P

Pin 39 (NC) is connected to (A19 PRG + A19 CHR)

Pin 12 (WRAM CE) is connected to A18 CHR

Because there is no WRAM, pin 2 (WRAM /CE) and pin 13 (WRAM /WE) are not available at MMC3 glop top.

These information are just about MMC3 glop top and I have to test them on AX5202P to confirm it but currently I don't have any AT27C080.

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qbradq
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Post by qbradq » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:07 am

Dang man, you're turning into the master pirate cart dumper :D

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FARID
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Post by FARID » Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:59 pm

It is mapper 52, Example Game is Mario 7-in-1 :

Mapper 52 technical doc

But there is a problem. Just three games are working good :

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What does it mean?! Is it a bad dump?! How can I fix it?

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Post by Bregalad » Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:12 pm

Wow you are very clever to have been able to dump the cart like that. I'm impressed !

Nobody can tell if this is a bad dump if you're the first one to dump it.

However, pirate carts often have weird variations of existing mappers (MMC3 in this case) and each pirate carts basically needs it's own iNES mapper number...
Personally I don't consider dumping pirates is any important, because they basically suck compared to the original versions of the game which have all been dumped already.
Even "original" pirate carts, such as the pirate Donkey Kong Country or Final Fantasy VII, sucks really hard.

Yet I'm still impressed you were able to dump it.
Useless, lumbering half-wits don't scare us.

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Post by SkinnyV » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:03 pm

Nice work! I'm surprised you managed to get a working dump by routing the address line from the edge connector though, I was under the impression that you would have had to hook up the address line before they go through the mapper glop... My idea would have been to isolate the address line by cutting trace and soldering directly to the trace as close as possible to the rom glop top.

But again, very cool work! Very clever, I like it:)

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tokumaru
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Post by tokumaru » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:54 pm

Man, this must have been hell to do. And you had to do this for BOTH chips... You are a very determined person, I'll give you that.

Anyway, the games appear to be running fine, just with the wrong tiles mapped in. Maybe this mapper is slightly different from mapper 52 and the bits that select the CHR bank act a little differently, or you swapped wires when dumping the CHR and some pages ended up in the wrong place?

I would try finding the code that maps in the selected game and change the bits of the written value that select CHR pages, to see if it's possible to find the correct graphics.

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Post by FARID » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:34 pm

Personally I don't consider dumping pirates is any important, because they basically suck compared to the original versions of the game which have all been dumped already.
At least I have 5 reason to do it by myself :
1. Learning!
2. I have the PCB so I have the schematic, I want to have the mapper number too.
3. I want to have the selection screen code and do some reverse engineering on it.
4. I want to test if AX5202P is exactly same as glop top MMC3 which supports up to 1MB PRG and 1MB CHR.
5. My real goal is having a customized multi-cartridge of Nekketsu series games translated to Farsi! (this is my childhood dream! :P )

isolate the address line by cutting trace and soldering directly to the trace as close as possible to the rom glop top.
Yes, that's it

Man, this must have been hell to do. And you had to do this for BOTH chips... You are a very determined person, I'll give you that.
I like it, this is my hobby.

Anyway, the games appear to be running fine, just with the wrong tiles mapped in. Maybe this mapper is slightly different from mapper 52 and the bits that select the CHR bank act a little differently, or you swapped wires when dumping the CHR and some pages ended up in the wrong place?
Except Spy Hunter which doesn't run at all, the others runs ok trough the game.
By separating the games and giving them Mapper 4, all of them runs ok!
The selection screen code has been embedded into the Sumari PRG.

I would try finding the code that maps in the selected game and change the bits of the written value that select CHR pages, to see if it's possible to find the correct graphics
Can you fix it for me?

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Post by infiniteneslives » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:49 pm

I like how it says "buttern" instead of button in the selection screen :)

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Post by SkinnyV » Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:57 pm

I am sure that the dumped PRG and CHR are correct because I compared them with individual games they are identical (though at PRG there are some more bytes for selection screen)
I got curious about this statement. I tried to run a few test comparing individual rom with multicart that were already dumped that had those same game included and all came back negative. Tested on about 4 or 5 different game and multicart dump. I even took a similar dump that had only 3 game on it (Chip 'N Dale, Robocop and TMNT 3) and compare test came up negative with only a few dummy data being matched.

Edit: Continued trying and started coming up with match too, I guess it really depend on each multicart and how they were made.

If I understand correctly you have dumped this multicart in the hope of hacking it to replace the included game with Kunio Kun game translated to Farsi as those game use the same mapper? I wonder how you're gonna be able to inject the new rom in it but after reading a few of your post, something tell me you're gonna manage to do it even if it take you a year :)

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FARID
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Post by FARID » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:41 am

I even took a similar dump that had only 3 game on it (Chip 'N Dale, Robocop and TMNT 3) and compare test came up negative with only a few dummy data being matched.
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First of all separate them.

Turtles contains the code for selection screen. so it does not match to any similar rom!

Robocop matches to RoboCop 4 [p1][!].nes (Use GoodNES 3.14)

Chip and Dale is Mapper 1 but this one have been changed to Mapper 4 so it matches to Chip to Dale no Daisakusen (J) [p1][!].nes

I wonder how you're gonna be able to inject the new rom in it
All of the roms, except the one which contains selection screen code can be replaced with a game which has a similar mapper.

If I understand correctly you have dumped this multicart in the hope of hacking it to replace the included game with Kunio Kun game translated to Farsi as those game use the same mapper?
There is already a Kunio 8-in-1 [p1][!].nes ROM but I don't have its PCB nor Schematic to build it.
Also I have a Kunio 8 in 1 pirate cartridge but it has just 7 games of 9 Kunio series. This project is just a pretest for final test!

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after reading a few of your post, something tell me you're gonna manage to do it even if it take you a year
Of course I will not quit until I die! :lol:

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qbradq
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Post by qbradq » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:10 am

Don't the ROMs you dumped match the pirate ROMs because those are in fact the ROMs you just dumped? Or am I missing something?

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