Famicom vs NES development?

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tad4shi
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Famicom vs NES development?

Post by tad4shi »

Hi everyone,

While I love the NES, I want to develop for the Famicom because I just prefer it over the NES.
Will there be any differences, big or small? If I make a game for the NES, will I also be able to play it on the Famicom?
I know that their cartridge pinouts are a bit different, but in every NES emulator I tried, famicom games also seemed to work.

I'm extremely new to NES development. In fact, I just got interested in it today and I'm looking forward to learning a lot.
I have some hardware hacking/circuit design experience as a hobbyist and know some C by programming microcontrollers.
Nope, I never tried assembly before!

Thanks!
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FrankenGraphics
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by FrankenGraphics »

General differences are listed here:

https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Famicom

There are some minor differences as well, even between famicom revisions, but generally you needn't worry. It can be obscure stuff like attempting to read the primary PPU OAM (not possible on early famicoms) - stuff you hardly need or want. To cite nesdev wiki: "The readability was added on the RP2C02G, found on most NESes and later Famicoms" [1].
tad4shi
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by tad4shi »

Thanks! So as a noob, if I were to make a simple NES game, it would run perfectly on a Famicom, right?
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orlaisadog
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by orlaisadog »

I think Super Mario Bros. was unchanged between Famicom and US NES. So yes, they are more or less the same thing in a different case, so much that emulators don't even make a distinction. Just make sure you don't use Start or Select on controller 2.

Edit:
The Nintendo Entertainment System, which Nintendo sold outside Japan a couple years later, is nearly identical in behavior with a few changes in the cords, controllers, system look.
- NesDev wiki
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Banshaku
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Banshaku »

@tad4shi

Yes, in that case it would not be an issue, it will work on both the famicom and the NTSC nes. The only one that will make a difference is a PAL nes (speed is different). But as a beginner, for now you do not need to worry about such details yet.
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Sumez
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Sumez »

I don't know why people keep thinking Famicom and NES are two different platforms. I mean, I can understand the confusion considering it both looks different and is called something different, but even a lot of game databases list them separated, and you have people who "collect" NES games that pretty much refuse to accept the existance of a Japanese region.
It's literally the same thing, just called something different.

What minor differences exist is nothing unique for regional differences. A PAL NES has much more central changes.
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Pokun »

Yeah Famicom and NTSC NES are pretty much the same on the inside, so the possible compatibility problems are few, but here are a few things to think about to maintain compatibility with both Famicom and NES:

START, SELECT and the microphone on controller II.
Just make sure none of these inputs are required in the game. For example if player 2 may pause with START, people with red & white Famicom (or Twin Famicom) will not be able to pause (and that may be fine in your game as long as player 1 always can pause). And if you use the microphone for anything, make sure it's not a requirement to proceed in the game (although some licensed games do exactly this) or else people with NES, AV Famicom and most Famiclones will not be able to play your game.

You may want to use a controller reading routine that respects external controllers connecting to the Famicom expansion port. This way external controllers can be used besides the built-in ones.

If your game supports 3 controllers or more, or use certain other external accessories there may be differences to think about.

Finally you are better off not reading register $2004 to maintain compatibility with earlier PPUs, but you probably normally don't need to read it anyway.
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Banshaku
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Banshaku »

Sumez wrote:I don't know why people keep thinking Famicom and NES are two different platforms.
My educated guess would be that younger generation which are used that all console look the same per region may think it is a different platform because of that. It was more common that a region had a different look in the past either for aesthetic/taste of the region or in the case of the nes so it doesn't look like a video game system (atari), it was an "entertainment system", like a vcr. whoa.. The toaster, except for it's interesting look, was such a poor design with all the connector issues :lol:
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by tepples »

That and a lot of the NES library was never released on the Famicom nor vice versa.
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Oziphantom »

Sumez wrote:I don't know why people keep thinking Famicom and NES are two different platforms. I mean, I can understand the confusion considering it both looks different and is called something different, but even a lot of game databases list them separated, and you have people who "collect" NES games that pretty much refuse to accept the existance of a Japanese region.
It's literally the same thing, just called something different.

What minor differences exist is nothing unique for regional differences. A PAL NES has much more central changes.
A different SKU is a different platform. The famicom has a different cart, with a different controller and hence is a unique SKU.
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Sumez
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Sumez »

Every new release is a different SKU. Often multiple SKUs exist in the same region, looking completely identical to the untrained eye. I believe even the exact same unit, shipped in different boxes, or bundled with different games, is still a new SKU.
tepples wrote:That and a lot of the NES library was never released on the Famicom nor vice versa.
But the same difference goes between the US and EU regions, as well as all other platforms up until modern day consoles. People don't consider Japanese PS4 games a different platform.
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Oziphantom »

Well no if you get more of an identical item, its the same SKU. So if you make 1000 NTSC US carts, its a SKU, if you then make another 1000 NTSC US carts, it the same SKU. If you make a 1.1 version, if that is the to be a new SKU or not is probably up to you, however I would expect the 1.1 to have the same SKU, unless you want people to stock and order 1.1 or 1.0.
Targeting PAL A and PAL B and US and JAPAN are all different SKUs. Although the PAL A and PAL B have no differences in the NES portion from a coding standpoint and it is just a difference CIC chip on the board. However a PAL and NTSC version are different, or at least they should be different, but some games can probably get away with just swapping the CIC chip for either A or B. But then I would also expect A and B to have different languages on the game and/or manual.

On a system like the PS4 where their is no region locking, then there are no separate models. However on a PS3 you have NTSC-J, NTSC-U, NTSC-C and PAL, which are different releases and you can't run a J on a U or a PAL. There are small software based differences between the models and how a game should operate, but their is no physical difference in the capabilities of the machine, unlike a Famicom and an NTSC US NES.
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Sumez
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Sumez »

I'm completely unsure what point you are making right now, but PS3 is completely region free.
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by rainwarrior »

The PS3 is free of region locking for games. There's still plenty of regional releases though. Lots of stuff gets customized for a locale, whether or not there's a region locking mechanism to prevent it from being exported from there. (...and the PS3 did have those SD video output standards to wrangle, as I guess Oziphantom was pointing out, though much of that could be handled by the system in an automated way.)

(I hope by the time the term "stock keeping unit" was uttered, OP had a good understanding that Famicom and NES are nearly identical machines.)
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Re: Famicom vs NES development?

Post by Oziphantom »

my point is - people see the famicom as different to a nes because it is different. Different carts, different name, different marketing, different hardware features. In that if I take a US NES game I can't use it on a Famicom, if I take a NES controller I can't use it on a Famicom.

My Point with the PS4 is they all look the same, same controller, same hardware and yes there is no region locking. Hence it is not a fair comparison to the NES/Famicom.

The PS3 is region locked, however 99.98% or so of games ship on region free disks. The PSN is rather locked down, to the point it has its own internal folder for each region. So if you buy a game on the UK store, but then buy the DLC on the US store. The DLC and Game can not see each other, I think save games are also in their "own territory"
If you look at this https://art.gametdb.com/ps3/coverfullHQ ... 1332960012 notice the globe with 1 on it. On my EU and Japanese copy it has a 2 in the icon. Although I don't think HS is region locked.. can't remember if it was or not.
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