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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:39 pm 
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Even if I put comments on my code, it would still be confusing because my dynamic animate engine uses a ton of register juggling.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:53 pm 
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Ideally, whoever is programming their game won't have to touch that code unless they want to modify the engine. You should provide either a function interface or a data format or maybe even macros so that new animations can be plugged into the game relatively easily.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:30 pm 
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But the problem remains of producing original assets with which to test an engine. The complexity just doubles or more on the Super NES because of two layers, four times the tile space, and five times the colors per tile.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:10 pm 
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Adding more BG layers can be done at the end of development though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:17 pm 
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tepples wrote:
But the problem remains of producing original assets with which to test an engine. The complexity just doubles or more on the Super NES because of two layers, four times the tile space, and five times the colors per tile.


This seems largely nonsensical to me - the world certainly has no shortage of pixel artists. Might it require more effort to make graphics for the SNES compared to the NES? Maybe. But having to make pixel art hasn't stopped the vast amount of pixel-art-themed indie games that have shown up on virtually every modern platform.

Art isn't the issue here, programming and tooling is.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:23 pm 
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HihiDanni wrote:
the world certainly has no shortage of pixel artists. Might it require more effort to make graphics for the SNES compared to the NES? Maybe. But having to make pixel art hasn't stopped the vast amount of pixel-art-themed indie games that have shown up on virtually every modern platform.

As far as I know, "the vast amount of pixel-art-themed indie games that have shown up on virtually every modern platform" are made on an existing engine. A tech demo would need all new pixel art.

HihiDanni wrote:
Art isn't the issue here, programming and tooling is.

So how would I go about finding people willing to create pixel art suitable for testing the "programming and tooling" that I am creating?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:38 pm 
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I'll just let you use the graphics that I'm using for my game.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:43 pm 
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I'm pretty certain that finding libre-compatible assets is the exact point of opengameart.org ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:45 pm 
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tepples wrote:
As far as I know, "the vast amount of pixel-art-themed indie games that have shown up on virtually every modern platform" are made on an existing engine.

That is what I'm getting at, yes. People want to be able to sketch out ideas quickly. Lack of developer convenience is a deterrent.

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A tech demo would need all new pixel art.

I can do art, though I tend to keep to my own projects mostly out of personal preference - I'm somewhat of a lone visionary. But I would very much like to contribute one or two demos of my own.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:35 pm 
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HihiDanni gets it. The problem I see, there are people who are:

    1. interested in programming
    2. interested in game design
    3. interested in creating pixel art

Outside of this website, I've seen people who are 2 and/or 3 by far. If there weren't (I assume) several 2D game engines already made for PC, I'd bet the number of "retro" indie games would be near-zero.

tepples wrote:
A tech demo would need all new pixel art.

Wtf tepples? https://www.spriters-resource.com/ :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:38 pm 
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Espozo wrote:
tepples wrote:
A tech demo would need all new pixel art.

Wtf tepples? https://www.spriters-resource.com/ :lol:

Those appear to be rips from copyrighted games. They could get the developer of a tech demo in trouble. That's why I specifically mentioned "the problem remains of producing original assets".


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:55 am 
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tepples wrote:
This leaves filling BG2 and BG3 and testing on all three major variants (1/1/1, 2/1/3, 1CHIP) of each region as the remaining blockers of stepping up from NES to Super NES.


I'm sure this is already debated thoroughly in this old thread, but are you sure the major blocker in "stepping up" from NES to SNES isn't simply a lack of thorough and properly organized documentation (such as the Nesdev Wiki) and good beginner tutorials?

I tried looking into SNES development at one point, but I really had no idea where to start out, apart from creating newbie threads on this forum.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:44 am 
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2 cents on artists:

There are many who are interested in doing pixel art, that's true. But there seems to be relatively few who are interested in making assets that would actually work without conditioning for a target platform. I've for example seen pixel artists do pictures with the NES master palette, not minding attributes, character space, subpalette restrictions...

Music side, there's plenty of people doing chiptunes - and some of that could be used with varying results in a game, but comparatively few who does actual vgm (taking game design and technicalities into consideration. Mixing a" hit single" or even an album is different from mixing a soundtrack, even for nes/snes/other machines).

But then again, SNES graphics limitations could be said to be more 'tolerant', so more graphics with no specific target platform will fit at least technically.

Still, if you want a template, you might aswell draw one that's consistent and that's made with intention to support and demonstrate an engine, rather than stitching together various free for all assets with varying styles and design goals to something that's approximately consistent.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:32 am 
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FrankenGraphics wrote:
2 cents on artists:
Music side, there's plenty of people doing chiptunes - and some of that could be used with varying results in a game, but comparatively few who does actual vgm (taking game design and technicalities into consideration. Mixing a" hit single" or even an album is different from mixing a soundtrack, even for nes/snes/other machines).

Not to mention - something that would actually work on a common NES cartridge without sound expansion channels, and doesn't require so much CPU that you couldn't run it alongside a game (obviously that's a limitation set by the coding of the engine, but I think Famitone works as a decent benchmark for a very flexible engine with sensible CPU usage)

I'd wager it's probably a lot easier to find a "pixel artist" that's able to do stuff that's viable on the SNES than the NES.
While "8bit graphics" is a pretty abstract term that says nothing about the limitation of your palette (though a maximum of 256 colors is a good guess, obviously :P), the term is pretty much just a buzzword, and usually never represents anything that's even remotely doable on an NES or even Master System. PC Engine might, but that's rarely what people think of when they're talking "8bit games".


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:15 am 
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Sumez wrote:
are you sure the major blocker in "stepping up" from NES to SNES isn't simply a lack of thorough and properly organized documentation (such as the Nesdev Wiki)

I mostly rely on Fullsnes nowadays. There's also SNES Development Wiki.

Sumez wrote:
and good beginner tutorials?

How much of a job would it be to rewrite Nerdy Nights for Super NES?

FrankenGraphics wrote:
There are many who are interested in doing pixel art, that's true. But there seems to be relatively few who are interested in making assets that would actually work without conditioning for a target platform.

Would it be hard for artists to understand a description of mode 1 limits?


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