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We've been called out
https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15811
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Author:  Oerg866 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Quote:
Or are there ways to lock a Genesis so hard that it can't even call the bus error handler?


Yes, because the VDP controls DTACK... :/

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

I just found out the rotozoom effect was at 12.5 fps, not 25 fps. Oh! That makes more sense now.

Author:  Oerg866 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

psycopathicteen wrote:
I just found out the rotozoom effect was at 12.5 fps, not 25 fps. Oh! That makes more sense now.


What are you talking about? The fractal rotozoomer is running at 50 fps.

Author:  Optiroc [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Absolutely amazing demo, quite possibly the best stuff ever to grace a stock mc68k machine (in addition to obviously being a top contender for best console demo ever). To all the armchair critics pulling the tired "well done but nothing technically impressive" card, there is only one response.

I'm eagerly awaiting the promised technical write-up! As for SNES coders stepping up to the challenge... Most active coders seem to be busy with (original) game projects/engines and (commercial) game translations/hacks, so the best bet for new demoscene activity at the moment is probably an influx of talent from other platforms who is looking for a new challenge. I was hoping that the ending tease was indicative of precisely that, but that wasn't the case I suppose...

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Oerg866 wrote:
psycopathicteen wrote:
I just found out the rotozoom effect was at 12.5 fps, not 25 fps. Oh! That makes more sense now.


What are you talking about? The fractal rotozoomer is running at 50 fps.


No, it's 12.5 fps. I downloaded the video from youtube and did some frame by frame in virtual dub, and it's 12.5 fps. Some parts run at 50 fps, but this part is too CPU intense.

Author:  lidnariq [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Whatever source you're using is giving you an incorrect impression: all the zoomers are running at 50fps.

In fact, the only parts that seem to not be running at 50fps seem to be the actual 3d rasterizers... those seem to be 12-16fps depending on scene complexity.

Author:  mikejmoffitt [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

The fractal zoomer is 50fps.

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

So is there a video I can download where it does run at 50fps? The demo can't run on emulators.

Author:  93143 [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

byuu wrote:
Quote:
I've broken it a few times already while messing around with the PPU, and so far as I'm aware none of the cases in which that happened work perfectly yet.

I got all of your demos to run. The only one that doesn't work now is your palette RAM DMA, because fixing that throws off timings in other games.

Well, yeah, they all run, but there are still little niggles:

The CGRAM DMA trick, in addition to the timing issue you mention, also shows the picture one scanline lower than it should. This is true of every version of bsnes/higan I've tried. With the test image I used, there's a brown line on the top of the screen (representing the tail end of the image that got written at the end of the previous frame), and the bottom line is missing. This has been proven not to happen on real hardware.

The BGMODE change now works, which is awesome. But as noted, the garbage is different, and if I want to be able to tell if obvious glitch pixels are visible through the sprite mask I have to use my real SNES, because in higan the masking is perfect.

Using HDMA to change OBJ table locations is probably ridiculously timing-sensitive, because it's interrupting OBJ data fetch. I wrote an ill-advised test program that I suspect only worked because it only used one sprite, and the switch happens one line late in higan compared to my real SNES. First Try by Magical does the same thing, and it seems to work perfectly in higan but shows some minor glitching on real hardware. (Fortunately it is entirely possible to do this glitch-free simply by writing during the active line, when the PPU is busy with OAM and BG data. Dunno why Magical didn't think of this...)

Then there was that stupid stunt I pulled back when I was learning how IRQs work, where I tried to line up the end of forced blank by polling the counters instead of redirecting the IRQ. I got much more permissive behaviour in higan than on real hardware; I couldn't get the screen to reliably turn on during HBlank on my real SNES, and it showed sliver-based behaviour where higan was pure dot. If this has been fixed, I missed it.

Author:  Revenant [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

psycopathicteen wrote:
So is there a video I can download where it does run at 50fps? The demo can't run on emulators.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWVmPtr9O0g

The video on Oerg866's own channel shows the rotozoomers clearly at 50 FPS as long as you're watching it at 720p (YouTube doesn't support 50fps video at lower resolutions).

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Revenant wrote:
psycopathicteen wrote:
So is there a video I can download where it does run at 50fps? The demo can't run on emulators.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWVmPtr9O0g

The video on Oerg866's own channel shows the rotozoomers clearly at 50 FPS as long as you're watching it at 720p (YouTube doesn't support 50fps video at lower resolutions).


I downloaded the video from that channel and it showed up as 12.5 FPS during that part.

Author:  tepples [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

What prevents Oerg866 from making the video available through a means other than Google's YouTube service?

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

To make it difficult to analyze effects.

Author:  Revenant [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

If you're able to download a (apparently inferior) copy of the video from YouTube, what's preventing you from just watching the video as intended in the actual YouTube player?

And are you seriously suggesting that Oerg866 is intentionally using YouTube's low-FPS video encoding to stop people from analyzing a demo when the ROM itself is publicly available? Come on.

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Apr 18, 2017 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: We've been called out

Revenant wrote:
If you're able to download a (apparently inferior) copy of the video from YouTube, what's preventing you from just watching the video as intended in the actual YouTube player?

And are you seriously suggesting that Oerg866 is intentionally using YouTube's low-FPS video encoding to stop people from analyzing a demo when the ROM itself is publicly available? Come on.


I have a hard time telling the difference between framerates. Plus if I manage to download a 50fps version I can see if there's any short cuts.

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