YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

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mikejmoffitt
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by mikejmoffitt » Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:24 pm

marvelus10 wrote:
Ste wrote:Hey, NightWolve. Long time, no speak. I played Celceta at E3 this year. It was pretty sweet. I might have to buy a Vita for that one. Anyway, if you're still hanging around Chicago we should meet up and chat about console video mods.

I don't want to hijack anything here, but once in a while I do Google searches on "SNES component cable". Since I support the Video Game History museum, one can see how I cringe everytime a system is modded for no reason. I decided to actually respond this time since I do have an account here. I know this is a forum of mostly technical people, but would people be interested in mod-less SNES component cables? In addition, I would guarantee that this solution would have higher picture quality than any mods found out there. Here's a photo of an actual working prototype that I completed this past February. Please forgive the poor gluing job. I don't know what it is about me, but I always manage to get glue everywhere including most of my fingers. ANYWAY, this cable is completely plug-n-play, so no modding (provided you have an SNS-001) and no external power required. I'm trying to go into production on these, but that could be a ways off since I'm creating cables for other systems too. Right now I'm working on building a website instead of the placeholder I currently have. Just yesterday, I finished recording a side-by-side composite/component comparison video for Sega Genesis. I'll do a SNES one in the coming weeks and it'll be a 3-screener comparing composite, s-video, and component. Bah, this post is getting too long. Sorry. Bottom-line: You don't have to mod your SNES to get high quality component video output.

If you're more interested in mods, hear what NightWolve has to say. He's a good guy and knows what he's doing.
I would love schematics for this, or something that can be purchased without throwing away lots of money. I would be very happy to have something like this available.


Maybe you could explain in further detail how this works.

Ste
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Ste » Thu Aug 15, 2013 10:11 pm

marvelus10 wrote: Maybe you could explain in further detail how this works.
Sure. It's an analog R'G'B' to Y'PbPr converter that I spent almost two years optimizing for size, cost, power consumption, and quality. The circuitry fits completely inside an aftermarket SNES A/V connector. The end user doesn't even need to be aware that there is a circuit there. I guess, in at least one way, it's similar to the Gamecube Y'PbPr cable.
mikejmoffitt wrote:I would love schematics for this, or something that can be purchased without throwing away lots of money. I would be very happy to have something like this available.
I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. What do you believe is a fair price for such a cable?


I attached some test screenshots I recorded a week ago.
Attachments
SNES_sidebyside.zip
Preliminary SNES CVBS/Y'PbPr Comparison Screenshots
(1.87 MiB) Downloaded 284 times

revfds
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by revfds » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:12 pm

Ste wrote:What do you believe is a fair price for such a cable?
I would gladly pay $10 for this, lol. I think once it gets past $20 than people would have a harder time justifying it. When would you have those made up? I was gonna do this mod, but I'd rather be able to just buy some cables that do the same thing ya know?

Markfrizb
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Markfrizb » Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:49 am

I'd be interested in several sets of these too. I think $10 is the magic number but I don't know how practical that would be from a manufacturing standpoint. Maybe 12-14 would still be sellable in-mass.


Will they work on the non-RGB consoles?

Mark

Edit: as the owner of about 70 consoles (work related), I can tell you about 30-40% of the 001 models (the first version) are not rgb. Not sure why or what the difference is but I have a RGB monitor and regular TV to test them on. So you might need to be prepared for the occasional " it doesn't work on my unit " if RGB is necessary.

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kriskizlyk
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by kriskizlyk » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:00 am

Finally after some delays with the PCB manufacture my boards arrived today. I will solder one up and submit my pictures. I have already laid out my issued before and in all honesty...I am still going to get a Retron5 when it comes out. The reason being is because my Componet to HDMI through receiver to projector gets distorted and I have to run a Componet cable to my projector for it to correctly display.

Oh if anyone wants one of these boards, just send me your address and I will snail mail it to you. I only have 10 so, it will be first come first serve.
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YPbPr Boards
YPbPr Boards

Ste
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Ste » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:23 pm

revfds wrote:I would gladly pay $10 for this, lol. I think once it gets past $20 than people would have a harder time justifying it. When would you have those made up?
$10 would be hard to hit. $20 seems more reasonable. Anyway, it all depends on production costs. The circuitry itself is super cheap. It's the connector, cabling, assembly, and testing I'm uncertain about. I was hoping to get something going by the end of the year, but it doesn't look likely at this point. If you need it sooner, then just perform the mod.
revfds wrote:I was gonna do this mod, but I'd rather be able to just buy some cables that do the same thing ya know?
I guarantee the cable will look better than the mod. At least in my eyes. I have very picky eyes. It's more of a curse than a blessing. Bah!
Markfrizb wrote:Will they work on the non-RGB consoles?

Mark

Edit: as the owner of about 70 consoles (work related), I can tell you about 30-40% of the 001 models (the first version) are not rgb. Not sure why or what the difference is but I have a RGB monitor and regular TV to test them on. So you might need to be prepared for the occasional " it doesn't work on my unit " if RGB is necessary.
Hey, Mark. I was not aware of this. I've tested my prototype on at least eight SNS-001 models and they all worked. Is there anyway I can purchase/borrow/rent one of these units from you so I can perform testing?

Markfrizb
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Markfrizb » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:44 pm

Sure. I have several of them. My main purpose is for the RGB units and while acquiring the consoles, I found that not all are RGB.

PM me your address and I'll send you one.

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marvelus10
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by marvelus10 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:23 pm

I was always under the impression that all SNES/SFC consoles are capable of RGB output. With exception of the mini console that needed a quick mod to reconnect it to the A/V out.

Here is some info on SNES RGB, it confirms everything I have read over the past few years on the subject.

http://retrorgb.com/snes.html

Markfrizb
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Markfrizb » Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:36 pm

Well, I've got a small stack of 001's that don't output RGB.
I use rgb cables and strip the sync away from the composite signal with a lm1881 (I think that's the chip #) because EVERY snes has composite video but from what I've read, not all 001's have a separate sync signal pin. Again, from what I read, sometimes the sync is missing and 5v is in its place.
I use the same test rig to test all my consoles and about 65% are "RGB" and the others are not. I wish I knew the difference or maybe those consoles have a different AV port configuring (maybe they don't have composite video?????)

Wish I knew.

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marvelus10
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by marvelus10 » Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:09 pm

Do you open up these consoles at all, it would be interesting to know what video encoder they have and board revisions. Even serial numbers.

Wouldn't they all have to have RGB to feed into the video encoder to convert to composite, maybe some of the last 001 consoles made didn't have the RGB connected like the mini/jr.

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Ramsis
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Ramsis » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:30 am

Hey, Mark!
Markfrizb wrote:I use the same test rig to test all my consoles and about 65% are "RGB" and the others are not. I wish I knew the difference or maybe those consoles have a different AV port configuring (maybe they don't have composite video?????)
35% (non-RGB units) seems a lot. If the consoles without RGB were fewer in number, I'd suspect they're simply defective as I can't really imagine Nintendo produced non-RGB SNES consoles back in the day (apart from the "Jr."/mini models, of course).

I have a very old, yellowed PAL console whose RF RCA connector was dead when I bought it off eBay. Turned out an SMD capacitor had leaked, and the acid must have affected tracks on an inner PCB layer. I was able to repair the RF output after checking SNES schematics and verifying the connection on a confirmed working SNES motherboard of the same type (SNSP-CPU-02 or whatever). Works great again! :)

So you might want to open up at least one or two of your non-RGB SNES units and look for leaked SMD capacitors. :idea:
Some of my projects:
Furry RPG!
Unofficial SNES PowerPak firmware
(See my GitHub profile for more)

Markfrizb
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Markfrizb » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:24 am

Hey Ramsis!

I have opened up a few of them to compare and the encoder chip was the only difference. I traced and compared almost every path and transistor, etc and they were almost exactly identical which really confused me. My only conclusion is that the encoder chip is the cause.
I don't think it's caps. They look good (not leaking) and the pic I get is total black. I mean nothing. Not even a hint of a pic. It's very perplexing. In fact, the console you were looking for and I sent is the same way. Didn't output rgb. Maybe you could look at it and see if you get rgb???? I'd love to know the answer to this ... I agree that it's too high of a percentage.


Mark

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mikejmoffitt
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by mikejmoffitt » Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:35 am

I've never seen a non-mini SNES that can't do RGB...

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Ramsis
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Ramsis » Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:03 am

@mikejmoffitt, me neither. :)

Hey, Mark!
Markfrizb wrote:In fact, the console you were looking for and I sent is the same way. Didn't output rgb. Maybe you could look at it and see if you get rgb????
All my SNES consoles (PAL and NTSC) are hooked up via RGB for the best possible picture on my Loewe CRT. In fact, the console you sent me outputs perfect RGB, too! :) So ... I'm afraid it's most likely your testing rig that's at fault here. :lol:
Markfrizb wrote:I use rgb cables and strip the sync away from the composite signal with a lm1881
I don't think that's a good idea. Try feeding your display's sync input with either composite video (Multi-AV pin 9) directly, or with composite sync (Multi-AV pin 3). My RGB hookups are like this, BTW. Note that the only pin on the Multi-AV port that differs from PAL and NTSC consoles is pin 3 (NTSC: composite sync, PAL: +12 V).
Some of my projects:
Furry RPG!
Unofficial SNES PowerPak firmware
(See my GitHub profile for more)

Markfrizb
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Re: YPbPr ouput mod for SNES consoles

Post by Markfrizb » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:19 am

I will try pin 3 for sync. Side note though... My scart cables don't have a connection to pin 3 is why I use the sync stripper.

I'll tinker with the connections.
Thanks!

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