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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:17 am 
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What exactly was an "extreme example of negativity" in my review?


All of it. The posting of the post. The fact that you thought anybody needed to hear any of it. Or maybe not stopping to think that perhaps nobody needed to hear it.

The part where you badger about seeing the game incessantly and then when you do you post a huge petty nit-picking review that nobody fucking asked for.

I promise you are not the only EXTREMELY opinionated person on this forum but people have to learn to balance it or they make no friends.

Edit: BTW, I want to add that this review you posted, was a review of a Youtube video. Did you play the game, to see if you liked it? Maybe you would enjoy the gameplay enough that it wouldn't matter that some of the platforms are visually in the background, or that a character's bed is too large in a cutscene. These kind of things aren't uncommon in games for this platform. What kind of game do you want? A fun game, or exactly the one single game that DRW wants that meet all of these ridiculous criteria? You'll probably say you're making that game yourself. We know. You can spare me.

I'm curious, did you buy the game? You said you wanted to buy it. Did you decide it didn't look fun because of these graphical peculiarities?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:03 am 
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darryl.revok wrote:
Quote:
What exactly was an "extreme example of negativity" in my review?


All of it.

That's exactly what I mean: You cannot name any actual thing, so you just say "All of it."
My whole post was negative? Really? The following sentences were negative?
DRW wrote:
And in that statement, I was talking more about action RPGs where the story is told through the fact that you can talk to people and walk around wherever you want.
DRW wrote:
Alright, now to the game itself
DRW wrote:
Visually, you have created a really great atmosphere.


Those were negative statements? Seriously?

Tell me which criticism was exaggerated in my post. Don't say "All of it" as if that was any kind of valid argument. Quote me verbatim.
As you like to say: Put up or shut up!

darryl.revok wrote:
The part where you badger about seeing the game incessantly and then when you do you post a huge petty nit-picking review that nobody fucking asked for.

But you do know how a forum works, do you? Usually nobody asks anybody to make a specific post. Nobody "fucking asked" for your opinion about my criticism either. So, does that mean your posts are unjustified since nobody asked for them? Did you get a private message by a moderator, telling you: "Hey, how about you writing a sentence in a thread of our forum?"

Complaining on a forum that nobody asked for my post is totally stupid. I'm starting to suspect that you're some 15 year old boy.

darryl.revok wrote:
Edit: BTW, I want to add that this review you posted, was a review of a Youtube video. Did you play the game, to see if you liked it?

No. And was my review based on playing experience? No. Did I criticize the game's physics? No.
So, what's the problem?

darryl.revok wrote:
Maybe you would enjoy the gameplay enough that it wouldn't matter that some of the platforms are visually in the background, or that a character's bed is too large in a cutscene. These kind of things aren't uncommon in games for this platform.

But these kind of things are exactly the stuff the AVGN would make fun about and what elevates a professional project from a game with levels that some random guy scribbled on a piece of paper.

darryl.revok wrote:
What kind of game do you want? A fun game, or exactly the one single game that DRW wants that meet all of these ridiculous criteria?

You still don't get it. When I have specific criteria for a game, these don't count for another game. So, don't pretend that I have a specific game in mind and are just bitter that they didn't do my game. So, the question "What kind of game do you want?" is invalid to begin with since I'm not a person that is aiming to play one game in his whole life.

What I want about this specific game: A better soundtrack. And cut out the illogical perspective issue. This would be a start.

darryl.revok wrote:
I'm curious, did you buy the game? You said you wanted to buy it. Did you decide it didn't look fun because of these graphical peculiarities?

No, I didn't buy it. Because it looks amateurish because of these graphical peculiarities. And it is totally unbearable when it comes to the sound.
Two pretty major points: Unbearable sound. And amateurish design choices in a game where a professional programmer was hired and that was marketed as a professional game.
For such a project, there's really no excuse to include issues that you would expect from a Color Dreams game.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 7:45 am 
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@DRW. Your comments were fair, until you said "amateurish...unbearable". If you want to know where fair criticism becomes trolling, it's in comments like that.

That being said. I am always glad to see new NES games, and I will be glad to see your NES game DRW, even if it maybe has a flaw ot two.

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Last edited by dougeff on Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:01 am 
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I understand some of the problems that some of you are having in getting your point across without appearing to be trolling. A lot of people in this hobby, including myself, have a mental disability making it harder to evaluate all connotations of a sentence. So sometimes I try to hide my criticisms behind cryptic puns, such that if you're smart enough to get it, you're smart enough to understand that nothing personal was meant.

Image
Hummer Team prepares to go to the Middle East


Let's just say that I mentioned scale earlier, and someone else thought scale inaccuracies could be overlooked.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 8:11 am 
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dougeff wrote:
@DRW. Your comments were fair, until you said "amateurish...unbearable". If you want to know where fair criticism becomes trolling, it's in comments like that.

But didn't darryl.revok already whine after my very first comment about the game? So, I'm sure he has more issues with my review than that specific example.

And sorry, but the music is unbearable. It's not like in "I like the music of "Mega Man" better than the music of "Ninja Gaiden"", it is: "This game sounds like those awful unlicensed games. I would have to switch off the volume since I cannot hear this for more than two minutes."

And I only called one thing amateurish: The perspective issue. Which is amateursigh. Can you deny that? Can you imagine "Super Mario Bros." and being stopped in your way because the hill that looks like background is suddenly a foreground platform? Now imagine if "Super Mario Bros." had actual isometric graphics where you can clearly see all three dimensions. And now imagine the hill becoming an obstacle, even though it is clearly in the background, at another value of the Y-axis. This is basic geometry and visual perception: You don't jump on a platform that clearly belongs to the background when in every other situation your jump is supposed to go straight up.

dougeff wrote:
That being said. I am always glad to see new NES games, and I will br glad to see your NES game DRW, even if it maybe has a flaw ot two.

It will surely have flaws, but they can be corrected because I'm planning to upload a prototype here into this very forum as soon as the game is in an actual playable state where feedback would make sense.

I'm also glad when games are released. But I'm more glad if the people show their work before releasing a final version, so that you can give feedback in a way that it still has an influence on the game.

For example, it's not that I'm happy that I can bitch about the game. I was hoping to buy it. Unfortunately, it would have needed more polishing.


tepples wrote:

I don't mind scale inaccuracies when they serve the principle of functionality over art accuracy. When each house has the same size as the player character, this is just for the sake of simplicity. But here, we have the total opposite in the intro: A huge artwork for the room was designed, even though the regular player character was used in that scene. In this case, it would have been no problem at all to design a smaller room, so that the protagonist doesn't look like a character from "Toy Story".

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:01 am 
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Why does the intro music sound like "Hummer Team," when the rest of the music sounds good?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 9:16 am 
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Can you imagine "Super Mario Bros." and being stopped in your way because the hill that looks like background is suddenly a foreground platform?


You mean like this...my own work in progress hack...
https://youtu.be/1ScAD6DO2Ps

(Actually I might drop all of these changes, because they're a bit annoying).

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:09 am 
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Am I being trolled? I think I'm being trolled.

I never once told anybody to "put up or shut up".


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:59 pm 
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I think that was me, but it wasn't in this thread... You guys :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:02 pm 
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darryl.revok wrote:
Am I being trolled? I think I'm being trolled.

I never once told anybody to "put up or shut up".

And again you react like the immature 15 year old boy that you are.

Sigh, do I really need to explain it? Do I really have to explain you why my statement was in no way trolling?

O.k., here we go, just so that people who haven't read everything don't think I make stuff up.

You wrote:
darryl.revok wrote:
I kind of wish the "put up or shut up" guy from a few days ago would show up so I wouldn't have to be the one to say this.

Please tell me I'm not the only one thinking this.

So, no, you haven't literally said "Hey, DRW, put up or shut up!" Therefore yes, from a totally moronic viewpoint, it might be justified to say that people who accuse you of this are trolling you.

But from a more everyday point of view, from a point of view that understands intention and context and doesn't parse the words like a mindless robot, you clearly identified with that sentence and you stated your intention to use it yourself.

You said you wish that the guy who originally came up with that sentence shows up. Implying that he should use the same argument again to spare you the need to use it yourself.
Which means that you stand behind his argumentation and that you think it is right.

You even literally called him
darryl.revok wrote:
the "put up or shut up" guy

O.k., yes, in a court, I might not be able to use this against you because technically you yourself never used the words, you just cited them.

But this is not a court, so I can take your intention into consideration. And from this angle, you identified with the words "put up or shut up" closely enough so that using these words against you in an ironic twist cannot be considered trolling.

I don't know if you're capable of understanding this logic, but I hope the others do and realize that all your accusations about me being a troll are nothing but the immature defiant reactions of a person who simply doesn't like a bunch of posts of mine.

Call me pessimistic and nitpicky, call me a flamer or a jerk or even an asshole. But if you call me a troll and if you proceed to comment each of my posts with the assumption that I'm a troll, then you are clearly just immature.
A troll is a person who consciously writes made-up controversial stuff that he doesn't even believe himself and who just wants to cause trouble for fun. This is different from a mere flamer or someone who criticizes everything and can never be pleased, but who is totally serious in his statements and actually means what he says.
And you're literally the only one here who seems to think that my review wasn't meant seriously.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:24 pm 
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Pessimistic, nitpicky, flamer, jerk or even an asshole bingo:

Calls someone person an "immature (0-1)x year old boy": check.
Says "Sigh,": check.
Says "moronic", "idiotic", or "mindless" when referring to someone one someone's viewpoint: check.
Likes to italicize words to sound upset or frustrated, especially on the words "literally" and "technically": check.
Feels the need to try to convince others that he isn't a "troll": check.
Says "you're the only one" in an accusatory manner: check.
Says "Call me", followed by words that are generally considered negative, including "pessimistic", "nitpicky", "flamer", "jerk", or even ""asshole": check.
Says "words against you" or some variation: check.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:27 pm 
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Omg. Okay, fine.

You insult me, you call me a child, you try to give me orders, you try to goad me into explaining the same things over and over again, and you wonder why I think you may be trolling me?

Do you understand the idea that some things, while they may be your true opinion, can be rude to give at certain times? Tepples is right, it's not fair to assume that everybody understands this. If you don't, please just say so and perhaps we can steer this debate to a productive direction.

I don't think anyone needs the "Angry Video Game Nerd" treatment given to released games. AVGN isn't going out looking for targets in newly released homebrew games and trying to trash talk them before anybody even knows about them. If that's the kind of response we can hope to get by posting in this forum, then I for one would be happy to leave.

I said, and meant, that I wish the guy who said "put up or shut up" would return, because I'm sure this is the kind of negativity that inspired him to join the forum and make that his first post. Anything beyond that is your perception.

Quote:
And you're literally the only one here who seems to think that my review wasn't meant seriously.


Do you really pretend to know what everybody else thinks?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 3:29 pm 
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Is it time to lock this thread yet?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:10 pm 
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darryl.revok wrote:
You insult me, you call me a child, you try to give me orders, you try to goad me into explaining the same things over and over again, and you wonder why I think you may be trolling me?

Yes, because unless these things aren't meant seriously, they are not the behavior of a troll.
You don't seem to understand the difference between a troll and a mere flamer.

You can find me as unpleasant as you want, but if you call me a troll, you're basically calling me a liar. Because a troll, by definition, is someone who just pretends to hold the viewpoint he is presenting.

You can hate me as much as you like. But don't tell me that my posts only contain a fake made-up position that I invented just to fool around with you. Bacause that's what you're implying when you call me a troll. A troll is not just a person whose opinion you don't like.

darryl.revok wrote:
Do you understand the idea that some things, while they may be your true opinion, can be rude to give at certain times?

When it comes to the way I treated you: Yes, I'm aware of it and no, I don't care.
You were way too defensive even after my original review of the game. You compared this stuff to the AVGN.
So, I don't care anymore whether you are insulted by my posts since I know that even a factual review isn't good enough for you.

When it comes to my original review of the game: You still haven't quoted me the exact statements that were apparently too rude.

darryl.revok wrote:
I don't think anyone needs the "Angry Video Game Nerd" treatment given to released games.

And again, for the last time: Nobody here gave anybody a fucking AVGN treatment. I never said "This game sucks ass." I gave my opinion on what I don't like about it.

When it came to the sound, I call it horrible, yes. Because it is. This sound makes me reduce or switch off the volume.
It is horrible because it contains that really unpleasant shrieky sound effect and it contains it constantly.

And I called the whole perspective issue with the stairs amateurish because it is. No game worth its money should do this. It's one of those beginners errors that makes the game seem like one of those unlicensed products from back in the days.

Other than that, I merely pointed out some things I don't like.
You still fail to provide where I made over the top accusations in the way you're implying.

darryl.revok wrote:
Quote:
And you're literally the only one here who seems to think that my review wasn't meant seriously.


Do you really pretend to know what everybody else thinks?

Dammit! Stop taking everything so literally!
No, I cannot be sure that every single person who ever had his eyes on this thread doesn't believe I'm trolling.
But I can be damn sure that while people might disagree with my opinion or find me outright annoying, that they never accused me of just making all this stuff up.

You should start settling on one of the two opinions about me:

Am I a nitpicky asshole who cannot be pleased with anything since he always has very specific requirements for what he considers a good game?

Or am I an asshole because I'm a troll who imitates a nitpicky asshole who cannot be pleased and who makes up specific requirements for what he pretends to consider a good game, even though those are not his real opinions?

So, am I someone who doesn't like the game for superficial reasons? Then I'm not a troll.
Or am I someone who likes the game, but who makes up criticism just to fool around with the people? Then I'm not actually nitpicky because it's just an act.

I can either be a nitpicky flamer or a troll. One way or the other. You accuse me of both, which is a contraditiction in itself.

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Trailer: https://youtu.be/IYXpP59qSxA
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Last edited by DRW on Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 4:12 pm 
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rainwarrior wrote:
Is it time to lock this thread yet?

It's overdue...

Seriously though, if there's ever a fight between two people, make an agreement to carry it over to private messaging.


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