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still worth it ?
https://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15043
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Author:  phil123456 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:45 am ]
Post subject:  still worth it ?

Hi,

I have been following some tutorials (bazz) for snes dev, so I got my tiles and a sprite moving uppon the keys of my keyboard .... yay

but honestly, is it still worth the hasstle ?

I been telling me, who cares there is no more snes around, it just the fun of assembler, but honnestly it's not fun, especialy if I am aiming to make a game like zelda 3

is there people still programming the snes ?

Author:  calima [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

We have lots of long threads on this here. Yes, the lack of an acceptable compiler is a significant issue, a few people make snes homebrew anyway, and there are other consoles where you could make a Link to the Past-alike much easier than SNES right now. Genesis, Dreamcast, GBA mainly.

There's an upcoming Genesis release in Brazil next year, so that's one console not quite dead yet ;)

Author:  tokumaru [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

You're the only only who can tell if coding for an old console is with it or not. Opinions will vary greatly from people to people, but since you're the one doing the coding, ultimately you'll be the one to tell whether your time is being well spent or not.

If you don't find it fun at all, that could be a problem. Finishing a game is a long journey, and if you don't enjoy the process, you'll likely not get very far. Money isn't guaranteed either, so I doubt that it alone could serve as motivation to finish a complex SNES game. We don't make retro games because we want to get rich or because we want to reach big audiences, we do it because we love these old platforms, and being able to add something to their libraries of games can feel very rewarding.

I find coding for the NES really fun, I love coding in assembly. Some obstacles may be frustrating at times, but finding solutions to these problems is really gratifying for me, and it motivates me to go on. Progress isn't always as steady as I'd like, but for me this isn't limited to NES projects, as I often get too hung up on specific issues, which prevents me from moving forward. This is something I have to change about myself though, and has nothing to do with retro game programming in particular.

Having complete control over the hardware of an old console and creating a world that relies on it is a very gratifying experience for me, and I really enjoy every bit of the journey. The ultimate goal is the game, yes, but depending on its complexity it can take a long time to get to the point where you have a finished product, so I think it's essential that you also enjoy the journey that'll eventually lead to the finished project.

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

I think it's a good idea to start with an entire 64kb of ROM to be exactly what shows up in VRAM when you start the game, with title screens and stuff.

Author:  phil123456 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

yes but is there still an audience for snes games ?

when I see how stiff the architecture is compared to a java/c++ game on pc (or recent consoles)

making something as complex as a link to the past (or any gba equivalent), is quiet a challenge

I used to like to learn asm when I was a kid, but I was wondering the size of snes retro gamers community...personal fun is one thing, but having people playing the game(even for free) is a nice motivation

(for instance even the AVGN game is made for pc)

Author:  dougeff [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

I, for one, would be excited to see more SNES games.

And, why does everyone take a 'go it alone' approach? If you don't like 65816 asm, maybe you could design graphics or levels for someone else's game. Collaborate.

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

I want to see the SNES homebrew scene get a lot bigger. The more people get involved the more people can share each other's advice.

Author:  phil123456 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

not that I dont like it... I been programming many different platforms in assembler

it's just a lot more work than doing it on a more recent platform
even arduino's avr ships are programmed in c++ nowadays

is there a SNES "scene" at least ?

Author:  calima [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

phil123456 wrote:
is there a SNES "scene" at least ?


Yes, but a very small one (on the dev side). For a cart release, there is an audience.

The consoles I mentioned above can all use C++, btw.

Author:  phil123456 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

calima wrote:
phil123456 wrote:
is there a SNES "scene" at least ?


Yes, but a very small one (on the dev side). For a cart release, there is an audience.

The consoles I mentioned above can all use C++, btw.


I got a thing for snes :-) btw I read somewhere gba and snes were related, like almost the same console

Author:  tepples [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

Not really. They're about as similar as the Genesis and Super NES are. The Genesis, like the GBA, has a more C-friendly processor and can write to video memory at any time, not just during vertical blanking, and its tiled graphics mode uses packed pixels rather than bit planes.

Author:  phil123456 [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

yep, found some link, apparently easier to program
http://www.loirak.com/gameboy/gbatutor.php

Author:  tokumaru [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

phil123456 wrote:
I read somewhere gba and snes were related, like almost the same console

That's the Master System and the Game Gear. SNES and GBA are fairly different, but I can see how some people would get the impression that they're similar due to the number of games ported from the SNES to the GBA.

Author:  rainwarrior [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

phil123456 wrote:
yes but is there still an audience for snes games ?

when I see how stiff the architecture is compared to a java/c++ game on pc (or recent consoles)

making something as complex as a link to the past (or any gba equivalent), is quiet a challenge

I used to like to learn asm when I was a kid, but I was wondering the size of snes retro gamers community...personal fun is one thing, but having people playing the game(even for free) is a nice motivation

(for instance even the AVGN game is made for pc)

To ask a rhetorical question: is there still an audience for PC games?

There are loads and loads of PC games that are released and nobody plays, despite it being an ubiquitous platform.

Finding an audience has a lot more to do with making a compelling game than it does choosing a platform.

Making a good game is hard, on any platform. It's even harder on retro platforms.


So, no I don't think a retro platform is a good choice if you're trying to maximize your audience. There are people interested in the platform that would love to try almost everything that comes out for it (this includes myself and a lot of people here), but it's a tiny niche. I don't think this is a good reason to make a game for SNES.

There are lots of good reasons to make a game for the SNES, but seeking an audience isn't one of those, in my opinion. Do it because you love the format. Do it because you love the challenge. Do it because it makes you feel good.

If you want to maximize your audience, the primary goal should be to make a good game. A good game can draw people in that aren't normally interested in the platform. If your game is not worth installing an emulator for, most people won't. (Most people don't have an emulator at the ready.) For that, there's a secondary goal to make it as easily available on popular platforms as possible. Package with an integrated emulator on PC, or use an HTML5 emulator to run it in a browser, or do something to make it easy to run so you're not just limited to people who know their way around emulators.

Author:  psycopathicteen [ Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: still worth it ?

If somebody has a PC, they can play it on an emulator.

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