NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Discuss technical or other issues relating to programming the Nintendo Entertainment System, Famicom, or compatible systems.

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GradualGames
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by GradualGames » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:58 am

dougeff wrote:re: music...
All of it, but specifically getting music to play correctly in a game WITH sound effects (in-game sounds). Not easy.

Also, I can envision a day in the near future where people are coming here to ask 100 questions about how to fix problems with their nesmaker games. Maybe they should set up a separate forum.
The sound engine nesmaker currently uses is ggsound. GGSound's famitracker converter makes it pretty seamless to use sfx (you just prefix a track with sfx_, then use the sfx from your game after doing the normal export. its as easy as that, no massaging of data or code required.). I think their intention is to try to bridge from the famitracker text export to ggsound so the user doesn't have to fiddle with python or scripts, just import the file, or something, but their long term plan is to create their own tracker within the tool, as I understand it, from talking to Joe, hiding all those details completely.

I agree I think the amount of maintenance ahead of them for the modules they are planning is likely to be rather large, but it looks as though this kickstarter could reach dizzying heights in terms of funding so perhaps they will be able to tackle it.

Given the amount of maintenance they will have to do, I really hope someone eventually persuades them to use source control...
Last edited by GradualGames on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FrankenGraphics
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by FrankenGraphics » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:03 am

A NESMAKER faq, wiki or plain manual separate to that of NesDev might help mitigate the potential load of questions. Especially if their tools' help section links straight into it.
http://www.frankengraphics.com - personal NES blog

modology
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by modology » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:41 pm

Bananmos wrote:
would have totally done if this were my project: Give up on all those goals to make it generate "optimized" 6502 code and just stick a modern microcontroller in there that runs at 100+MHz and can easily run all the game logic and do a full VRAM update with no problems. And then just re-purpose the NES CPU to be a HDMA unit/soundchip.
I'm on the same page with you here. I really have no idea how difficult it is to do custom hardware design like that however this would have had pushed NES development to another level without all of those limitations.

Perhaps someone capable can try to do this

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rychan
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by rychan » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:39 am

I'm excited by this kickstarter project and hope it all goes really well, to create a re-usable NES engine is tough enough, let alone then developing all the front-end tools for use by non-progamming types and making it actually usable by them!

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by dude3585 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:50 am

It uses UNROM mapper 30. There FAQ video gave me some of my answers I was wondering about. The Kickstarter is going up fast so I have no doubt it will reach all its goals and I like that because I wanna make a shump first. Hopefully it will do way over and we will have other mappers to use. I would like NROM for simple games. Mainly because the boards are cheap and I have a lot of m27c512 eeproms.
I think this software even for people that know how to code and all could find this useful for prototyping is just one example. Some people use Gamemaker just for prototyping with its drag and drop before going to Unity for example. Personally hate drag and drop and I use GML in GameMaker myself.
I could see some more advanced people using this to make a quick base game then opening the rom or whatever is needed and use ASM to make a more advanced game. Correct me if wrong.

Considering software(legally) is expensive as hell. This is a pretty cheap price.

slobu
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by slobu » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:12 pm

I'm big on beginner friendly tools. Already have the Infinitelives programmer and a few carts.

I'll plunk down for the $36 dollar package (software only) and try to field questions. Fortunately, that's way off in August.

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by dude3585 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:51 pm

In the FAQ video he says a month after the kickstarter or so there will a Beta released but they say keep in mind its for testing only till the official release.
Here is my issue. It takes mapper 30. That the UNROM 512? So in other words gotta buy the boards? Not sure if flash carts can take that mapper and forget about using donor carts.

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by lidnariq » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 pm

UNROM512 is almost compatible with ordinary UNROM, but with two major changes:

1- UNROM512 usually (not always) supports self-flashing. This probably only relevant for save games.
2- UNROM512 rarely supports multiple banks of CHR RAM. Whether this will be a requirement depends on each engine they write.

However,

3- 512KiB of UNROM requires 5 bits of latch and 5 bits of OR; a donor isn't going to be a good match anyway because any existing matches will either only provide 4 bits of latch and 4 bits of OR, or will only provide 8 bits of latch: there are no pre-existing options that will allow a game that large without adding multiple 74xxx ICs beyond the ROM

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by tepples » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:27 am

If games aren't forced to use the mapper 30-specific features (self-flashability and switchable CHR ROM), emulators can run them as oversize mapper 2. And if they aren't forced to use 4 Mbit capacity, third-party UNROM/UOROM boards will run them.

I seem to remember reading years ago about an UNROM clone using an open-drain/collector "bus driver" IC that, based on an input bit, could switch between "non-inverting buffer" and "all outputs high". A 6- or 8-bit IC like this paired with a 74377 might allow for a 2-chip mapper (without the self-flashability).

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by Erockbrox » Fri Jan 19, 2018 4:49 pm

I'm going to create some retarded game and then everyone in the NES homebrew community will buy it because *we have to support the scene*.

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by dude3585 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:22 pm

Im going to create some retarded games for myself and in the name of science!

There is tons of bad and some great homebrew games imo. This I dont think will change much as far as selling games unless you get a team together and work on a game for a few years. More skilled people in ASM Im sure would be needed also to make it more unique. Then after all that it wont make money off what time and supplies you have put into it.
Happens with a zillion indie games for pc every year it seem.
If some kid thinks he will make money off his simple nes game he made in a day and others are working on large scale projects then I feel bad for the kid. He would have a hard time paying for the boards, shells, ect also. Maybe Im wrong guess time will tell.

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DRW
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by DRW » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:09 pm

Erockbrox wrote:I'm going to create some retarded game and then everyone in the NES homebrew community will buy it because *we have to support the scene*.
:mrgreen:

This is exactly what I sometimes think when I see some homebrew games:

Port a decades-old mini game to the NES that you can find on any Windows PC, give it a deceptive box artwork that makes it look like an action war game, offer the limited edition with some military-styled bonus material and people will lose their shit: "Awesome!" "I will buy this!"

Same with a game that consists of nothing but pressing a button and activating a random number generator that decides whether you win or lose: People will fincance you with thousands of dollars, despite the only person in your team that created anything of worth being the pixel art designer.


But try to program a little jump'n'run that is admittedly a bit short because it was designed to be like a 1985-styled arcade-like black-boxart game, but it has all the things from a real game: Jump physics, platforms, different opponents, scrolling, attacking etc.
And the people will complain that the gameplay is too repetitive and that the graphics look like on the Atari 2600.
And of course the game doesn't serve the box artwork justice. Despite the box artwork scene being a faithful rendition of what the game is about.
My game "City Trouble": www.denny-r-walter.de/city.htm

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by tepples » Fri Jan 19, 2018 6:53 pm

DRW wrote:Same with a game that consists of nothing but pressing a button and activating a random number generator that decides whether you win or lose:
Since when were we talking about Mario Party? :P

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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by dougeff » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:06 pm

It sounds like Russian Roulette, but equally could mean my Rock Paper Scissors game.

Also, made me think of these song lyrics...
"Never win first place, I don't support the team"
-Pink
gameplay is too repetitive and that the graphics look like on the Atari 2600
DRW, I got the same complaints about my game, and I also didn't make any net profits, for 2 years of work.

Complaining about it isn't going to improve my situation, nor my attitude. I prefer to be happy to be part of the whole "scene".

EDIT, I really liked the boss fight in your game, btw.
nesdoug.com -- blog/tutorial on programming for the NES

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tokumaru
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Re: NESMaker Kickstarter - Make NES games without coding

Post by tokumaru » Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:19 pm

It seems that the technical aspect never mattered much to the consumers of homebrew games anyway. Players don't usually know how difficult something is to code, so presentation and fun are ultimately the most important factors affecting the success of homebrew games.

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