EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

A place where you can keep others updated about your NES-related projects through screenshots, videos or information in general.

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Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:32 pm

For the people who release their games for free, how would you feel about setting up a donation button in EMUya where people could donate to you?

tepples
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by tepples » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:04 am

blargg wrote:all emulators are legal AFAIK.
It's not always whether it's legal as much as whether you want to avoid being sued in the first place. Avoiding the cost of a trial and an appeal is why Red Hat leaves game console emulators out of Fedora even if ROMs under a free software license exist for the emulated platform.

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Thu Mar 28, 2013 8:50 am

tepples wrote: It's not always whether it's legal as much as whether you want to avoid being sued in the first place. Avoiding the cost of a trial and an appeal is why Red Hat leaves game console emulators out of Fedora even if ROMs under a free software license exist for the emulated platform.
I read about the bleem cases. It appears they didn't sue them for the emuator, they sued them for using screenshots on the box? Bleem won on all counts though. Its good legal precedent.
Last edited by Zelex on Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sik
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Sik » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:45 am

They sued them because it allowed PlayStation games to be played on non-Sony systems. They probably had some patents on it and such to back it up if needed. Even then, the biggest problem was that the discs were designed to be used exclusively with specific licensed games, so there wasn't even the excuse of homebrew there. Ironically, they probably got pure profit off that since they made money off game licensing and actually lost money on the hardware itself (Bleemcast still required the original CDs of the games to work).

I'm more surprised it wasn't Sega who sued them... Seriously, not only they broke into Sega's system, they dared to promote the emulator at freaking E3 =P

EDIT: also rereading that last post, um, actually Bleem won all the cases. They were forced into bankruptcy because of the costs of going through the lawsuits. If anything, the legal precedent set by that just made it stronger in favor of emulators, not against.

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:59 am

Sik wrote:They sued them because it allowed PlayStation games to be played on non-Sony systems. They probably had some patents on it and such to back it up if needed. Even then, the biggest problem was that the discs were designed to be used exclusively with specific licensed games, so there wasn't even the excuse of homebrew there. Ironically, they probably got pure profit off that since they made money off game licensing and actually lost money on the hardware itself (Bleemcast still required the original CDs of the games to work).

I'm more surprised it wasn't Sega who sued them... Seriously, not only they broke into Sega's system, they dared to promote the emulator at freaking E3 =P

EDIT: also rereading that last post, um, actually Bleem won all the cases. They were forced into bankruptcy because of the costs of going through the lawsuits. If anything, the legal precedent set by that just made it stronger in favor of emulators, not against.
Yeah, sorry about that. I was saying Sony lost. I edited the post.

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blargg
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by blargg » Thu Mar 28, 2013 5:16 pm

Sik wrote:Ironically, [Sony] probably got pure profit off [Bleem's existence] since they made money off game licensing and actually lost money on the hardware itself (Bleemcast still required the original CDs of the games to work).
Maybe they were concerned that publishers would publish for Bleem and not pay Sony any licensing fees. It would be a loss of control over the platform.

Sik
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Sik » Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:22 pm

Nah, it'd be a pain development-wise (not to mention Bleemcast wasn't perfect, even with the game specific hacks it was quite buggy). The problem is that it encouraged players to stay on the Dreamcast and that obviously was counterproductive for Sony.

Not like it was needed anyway because the Dreamcast died as soon as the PS2 was merely announced (all developers jumped ship simultaneously...).

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:37 pm

Hey btw,

We have put the following games pre-installed in EMUya.

Battle Kid Demo (soon to be full game purchase)
Battle Kid 2 Demo
Nomolos Demo
Super Bat Puncher (with permission)
Blade Buster
Streemerz
Alter Ego
Driar
D+Pad Hero
D+Pad Hero 2

We will be adding a link to your website so that people can go directly to your site. (direct attribution)

If you have a specific website you would like us to point to, let me know so I can update the data.

Also, if you are one of the developers of these games and would prefer to have your games (or demos) not pre-installed or linked to, let us know and we will remove it right away.

Also also, if you give your game away for free and want me to put up a donate button, let me know!

Best wishes,
Jon

tepples
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by tepples » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:49 am

D+Pad Hero 1 and 2? I wonder how long until the music publishers get those games pulled on a copyright claim for all the cover songs they include.

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:01 am

tepples wrote:D+Pad Hero 1 and 2? I wonder how long until the music publishers get those games pulled on a copyright claim for all the cover songs they include.
Because they are interpretive and not literal, I think its technically fair use.

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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by tepples » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:52 am

Because I'm not a lawyer, most of this is probably wrong in some subtle way, so please run it by your own lawyer first:

There are two different copyrighted works involved. One is the composition (called a "musical work" in the U.S. copyright statute) and the sound recording (the sound of a particular performance of the composition). The first sound recording of a given composition to be published is produced under license from the composition's copyright owner; subsequent recordings may be produced under a "statutory license" paid through a collecting society. The DPH games don't copy the sound recording, but they do copy the composition. Use of a copyrighted composition in an "audiovisual work" (motion picture or video game) ordinarily needs a "sync" license from the composition's copyright owner. Unlike a statutory license for a plain recording, sync licenses are purely negotiated, and copyright owners are under no obligation to grant a sync license. To use an existing recording in an audiovisual work, one needs both a master license for the recording and a sync license for the underlying composition.

You mentioned fair use, which the U.S. copyright statute defines in 17 USC 107. Given that DPH games use a cover version of an entire song, I don't see how it qualifies under "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole". And given the common practice of negotiating sync licenses, I don't see how it qualifies under "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work".

The one thing worse than a cease-and-desist letter is a demand letter, which could bankrupt you because if you don't pay up, they'll sue. The music industry is known for using demand letters (Capitol v. Thomas). Again, I'd recommend getting a lawyer if you're going to be relying on a fair use defense for distributing DPH as a launch title for Ouya.

When I made Thwaite, on the other hand, I tried to make its music sound like parts of the Animal Crossing soundtrack, but I built it out of similar-sounding pieces taken from a composition by someone who's been dead more than 100 years: Ludwig van Beethoven's Piano Sonata No. 8 in C minor (called "Grande sonate pathétique" by his publisher).

Now I'm not trying to demean anyone's work. I just don't want to see EMUya getting taken down by the record industry on the front page of Slashdot, with the highest-rated comments expressing a sentiment that "He had it coming."

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:26 pm

If you think that is the weakest link here and may give the RIAA an opening for a lawsuit, I'll pay my IP laywer to take a look and give some advice. Worst case I have to take it off the pre-install list.

Sik
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Sik » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:01 pm

I'm not a lawyer but I'm 100% sure that isn't fair use at all. Actually quite the opposite, they're derivative works made without permission and thereby outright copyright infringement no matter what.

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:29 pm

Are covers of copyrighted music on youtube also copyright infringement then?

Zelex
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Re: EMUya - A emulation store for homebrew NES development

Post by Zelex » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:43 pm

Ok, so from what I can tell, yes even covers on YouTube are copyright infringement. Well, I don't want to be painted as a target, so I'll be pulling those two games from the store. Its a shame really cause those games are really awesome IMO.

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