Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

A place that you can discuss reproduction of classic titles or "licensed-for-reproduction" homebrew for personal use.

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1. NO BLATANT PIRACY. This includes reproducing homebrew less than 10 years old, with the exception of free software.
2. No advertising your reproductions, with the exception of free software.
3. Be nice. See RFC 1855 if you aren't sure what this means.
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darryl.revok
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by darryl.revok »

Honestly, I tend to agree.

There are a lot of different angles to it, and it's really easy to dismiss the big companies, especially for software that's been abandoned, but what about independent game retailers?

I don't know about you guys, but when I see a little game store with vintage stock, I like to dig through their cart selection. It's a fun little part of vintage gaming culture. Collecting is never going to be the same after this big flood of repro carts on the market. I mean, it's like now you have to carry around a 3.8mm security bits to look at ROMs and a loupe to make sure labels were offset printed just go to the flea market. It's not like selling repros is altruistic. People do it to make money, but in doing so, it hurts a market that people have been enjoying for a long time.

Why not use that interest and skill to create something that adds to the market and promotes homebrew?
NYMike
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by NYMike »

Again, just making sure I was perfectly clear, I have straight out refused to pirate games. I was asking more about the non existent games such as homebrews and rom hacks creating completely different games (example like Zelda GoW and PW).
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darryl.revok
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by darryl.revok »

Sorry, I didn't mean to insinuate that you did. All of the games you mentioned are distinct from any official US games. I was speaking on the overall topic of the ethical matters of repros, definitely not you specifically.

Did you mention at one point that you have a games store?
NYMike
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by NYMike »

I work at a game store yeah. I told my store manager about the games I have made and got him into the retro scene as well. He has asked me to make him a few games for him and insisted that SNES games are now "abandonware" and I could legally distribute these games. I kind of felt that he was mistaken and tried doing some research to no avail. No information out there seemed to support his claim. I figured asking the site since people here deal with these type of games on daily basis.
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darryl.revok
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by darryl.revok »

At least in terms of games that were officially released, I feel like selling them hurts everybody in the market except for the person selling them. If somebody wants to play ROMs I'd rather see them buy a Powerpak or Everdrive and support someone making a new contribution.

Legal Disclaimer: Please only use a Powerpak or Everdrive to play ROMs of which you own a licensed copy or games which are free-license. :)
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rainwarrior
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by rainwarrior »

NYMike wrote:insisted that SNES games are now "abandonware" and I could legally distribute these games
LOL nooooope. Copyright does not expire just because you're not currently selling something.

Copyright expires on a fixed timeline, whether or not you're still trying to make money off it. In the case of games, it's usually 95 years from the publishing date. So, for an game made in 1990, its copyright will expire in 2085.

The exception is that an author can wilfully place it in the public domain, or otherwise place it under a free public license (e.g. creative commons). In these cases copyright still persists, and the original author does own the work still, but they've given you the right to make copies of it.

Again, largely academic, because these laws aren't enforced very well at all, but from a legal perspective, no, copyright doesn't work like squatter's rights. Abandonware is not a distinction that affects the legality of copyright.
tepples
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by tepples »

Is there some rule against perpetuities that prohibits taking an order that won't be delivered for several decades? If not, "I can make this game for you, but it'll take about 70 years to ship it to your grandchildren. I can offer express shipping for 10 billion dollars.[1]"


[1] Half of Nintendo's market capitalization according to NTDOY on Yahoo! Finance
qwertymodo
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by qwertymodo »

While some older games might fall under the umbrella of abandonware, Nintendo games most certainly do not. First of all, the original copyrights have not expired, and second, they have the Wii(U)/3DS Virtual Console, which shows very clearly that they have not abandoned those libraries (even if a specific title has not been released as VC). ROM hacks would likewise be covered by copyright because they are considered derivative works, which are governed under the copyright of the original work (i.e. the original game). So Zelda GoW is still considered copyright property of Nintendo because it is a derivative work of aLttP. Now, the GoW authors can also claim copyright on their own work on that ROM hack, but that does not supersede or invalidate Nintendo's copyright (which is why ROM hacks can be C&D'd for copyright/trademark infringement, like Crimson Echoes was). So if you are worried about copyright ramifications, then for all intents and purposes treat ROM hacks, ports, and (re)translations the same as OEM releases.
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rainwarrior
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by rainwarrior »

A ROM hack is simply a work with two copyright holders instead of just one. To be able to use it, legally, you need the permission of both owners. (The hack author, and the original game's owner.)
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fys
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by fys »

NYMike wrote:I work at a game store yeah. I told my store manager about the games I have made and got him into the retro scene as well. He has asked me to make him a few games for him and insisted that SNES games are now "abandonware" and I could legally distribute these games. I kind of felt that he was mistaken and tried doing some research to no avail. No information out there seemed to support his claim. I figured asking the site since people here deal with these type of games on daily basis.
You shouldn't have mentioned this to a store manager. His eyes probably lit up with dollar symbols and thinks he's now going to ride you into retirement.
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nintendo2600
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by nintendo2600 »

fys wrote:
You shouldn't have mentioned this to a store manager. His eyes probably lit up with dollar symbols and thinks he's now going to ride you into retirement.
exactly.
NYMike
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by NYMike »

Don't worry guys I was born at night but not last night. Unless I can be provided documentation that proves I can legally distribute carts (which we have definitely already said many many MANY times already that it cannot be) it won't be happening.
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fys
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by fys »

NYMike wrote:Don't worry guys I was born at night but not last night. Unless I can be provided documentation that proves I can legally distribute carts (which we have definitely already said many many MANY times already that it cannot be) it won't be happening.
Oh we're not questioning your scruples, just concerned that your manager is now going to apply pressure and make your job harder if you're not willing to 'play ball' so to speak.
tepples
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Re: Ethical dillema on repros rom hacks and homebrews

Post by tepples »

Is he willing to do NES too, or only Super NES? Because if NES, then he can play a different kind of "ball".
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